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Deleting and protecting a page

how can I delete a page created by me? And how can I protect a page from vandalism? I mean how can I protect a page from some users so those users can't edit the page ? Crazy975 (talk) 09:34, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Crazy975 Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. If you are the only editor of a page or article, you can make an author request speedy delete proposal by placing {{db-g7}} at the top(as it appears when viewing this page, not in the edit window where I have coding to suppress its function). If it's a page in your user space, you can use {{db-u1}}.

If an article or page is subject to vandalism, the vandals may be reported to WP:AIV. If there is a habitual, demonstratable problem with vandalism on an article or page, you may request page protection at WP:RFPP. Note that "vandalism" has a specific meaning, which is attempts to deface an article- it isn't edits made that you simply disagree with. 331dot (talk) 09:41, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Ok but what if the page is mine ? How can I delete my own page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazy975 (talk • contribs) 09:44, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

As I said, if the page is in your user space, place {{db-u1}} at the top. If it is elsewhere, and you are the only contributor, you may use {{db-g7}}. 331dot (talk) 09:48, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

I am just writing {{ and it asked for a corresponding template.

What should I write in the template?

Are you talking about deleting a page or protecting it?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazy975 (talk • contribs) 09:57, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Crazy975 To request deletion, you need to place exactly what I wrote- {{db-u1}} if it's in your user space.

Looking at your edits, you seem to want to preemptively protect your sandbox from vandalism- we do not preemptively protect pages. There must be a demonstratable problem with vandalism. Do you have reason to think that your sandbox will be vandalized? 331dot (talk) 10:00, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

I am doing this because I wanna have a experience of doing this .

I apologize

Btw , what if I want to protect a page created by me ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazy975 (talk • contribs) 10:02, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Also how did you view my sandbox without adding a view to it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazy975 (talk • contribs) 10:05, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Please make sure to properly sign your posts going forward with four tildes(~~~~) so we know you wrote them. As I said, we do not preemptively protect pages. There must be an actual problem with vandalism on a page, typically that blocking the vandals does not address. Sandboxes are not likely to be vandalized, as they are not easy to find unless someone knows it exists. I looked at your edit history, which any editor may view. 331dot (talk) 10:07, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Sinebot is signing my posts no need to sign Crazy975 (talk) 10:09, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

It is much preferred that you sign your own posts. 331dot (talk) 10:10, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Ok ok but I am just doing so for practice . I was asking if it was my own page how can I protect it ?

I mean , I am trying to protect my page I order to learn this and do this more efficiently in the future Crazy975 (talk) 10:13, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

As I said, you can request page protection at WP:RFPP but it will not be accepted unless you have an actual problem with vandals vandalizing the page at issue. Please do not request protection unless that is the case. 331dot (talk) 10:14, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

@Crazy975: Your user page is not "yours" per se as explained here; it's a loaner so to speak and you're being allowed to use free of charge. Others will for the most part leave it be as long as it is in accordance with Wikipedia:User pages. However, if you start using it in an inappropriate way or adding content to it that violates some Wikipedia policy (e.g. copyright policy violations, biographies of living persons policy violations, excessively promotional content policy violations) another user or a WP:BOT may edit the page if necessary, even without warning, to remove or otherwise address those violations.

You can't protect the page or prevent others from editing it yourself; only an administrator can do that, and they will only do so as a last resort to prevent serious disruption or policy violations as explained in Wikipedia:Page protection.

You can't delete a page yourself; only an adminsitrator can delete a page. If you want a page deleted, you will need to ask an administrator to do so. There are different reasons why a page may be deleted, and you can find out some more about them in Wikipedia:Deletion policy.

Finally, anyone can see your user sandbox simply by going to page and looking at it. You can't hide the contents of the page from public view. In fact, anyone can see anything you post on any Wikipedia page as explained here. If you want to keep something private, you shouldn't post it anywhere on Wikipedia. -- Marchjuly (talk) 10:17, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

You type "db-u1" in the pop-up. Carpimaps (talk) 11:30, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

"What I tell you three times is true." (Lewis Carroll). You have been told three times that protection only applies after there is evidence of vandalism. Vandalized articles get protected. At times, editors' User page are vandalized - often as revenge for edits to an article - an can also be protected. David notMD (talk) 10:22, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Okokok how can I tell an administrator to delete my page? There is a reason to delete my page: it's not needed and is bagus — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazy975 (talk • contribs) 10:25, 19 March 2023 (UTC) Crazy975 (talk) 10:27, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

I've answered this question at least twice in this discussion. 331dot (talk) 10:28, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

You can delete all content on your User page. You can delete all content on your Talk page. You can delete all content in your Sandbox. You have also been told how to use the Db function to request an Administrator to delete those pages entirely. Or, given that your account is less than a week old, delete content and abandon the account. Or, continue to be obtuse and your account will be indefinitely blocked. David notMD (talk) 10:31, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Ok people , it's ok Crazy975 (talk) 13:44, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Effort to correct Japanese naming convention

I am very new to this and hope this is the right place to ask. In Japanese, the correct order of speaking someone's name is their family name followed by their first name. Across Wikipedia and many other western sources of information this order is reversed. Where might one go to discuss potentially changing this policy, so that the family name is put first? Alonewestand (talk) 17:14, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Alonewestand Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Perhaps I misunderstand you, but if you want to change all articles about people so that their family name is first, so that Joe Biden would be "Biden Joe", that is not going to happen. Articles about people are titled by the most commonly used name for the person, and based in their culture. Japanese names should be as they are in Japan, and names in Western countries like the US/UK should be as they are there. If you still wish to attempt to change the policy, the Village Pump is the best place to start. 331dot (talk) 17:25, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

I think I did misunderstand, so I am striking this. Please disregard. 331dot (talk) 17:28, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

However, "correcting", say, the people at List of Japanese Americans is not the way to go. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:31, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

@Alonewestand en-WP:s guidance on this is at WP:JTITLE. If there is something there you wish to discuss changing, the place to start is the talkpage of that page. Hope this helps. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:26, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Alonewestand (talk) 18:09, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Note also that there are templates like this:

The native form of this personal name is Ono Yoko. This article uses Western name order when mentioning individuals.

The article Yoko Ono is titled per WP:COMMONNAME. Because, you know. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:47, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Jumbled links

Novice editor. Article internal links to various universities redirect ok in edit mode and publish mode, but "Download as PDF" jumbles these internal links in a somewhat random manner. Billyboybliss (talk) 14:43, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

@Billyboybliss Welcome to the Teahouse. Are you referring to problems in the draft User:Billyboybliss/sandbox in your sandbox? If not, please specify which article. Your draft has various problems that you may be able to fix yourself after reading H:YFA and information about inline citations at WP:CITE. If not, come back into this thread with a more specific question and someone will help. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:39, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

I forgot to say thank you for the welcome to Teahouse. I was unaware of the process of becoming a Wikipedian, and the challenge of writing an entry. But enjoying the opportunity. Thank you for your advice regar

ding Billyboybliss/sandbox. Billyboybliss (talk) 11:30, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Billyboybliss: I have made some tests on different pages. It appears that if a link is broken into two lines in a PDF download then clicking anywhere in those two lines will go to the target of that link. If a line both starts and ends with a broken link then the ending link controls the target. I didn't find this bug in a quick search of our bug tracker. I will search more carefully later and submit it if I don't find an existing report. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:46, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter, @Billyboybliss Ah, yes, I see now after looking carefully at the download. The issue is most obvious in the text with multiple wikilinks in one line (The Education University of Hong Kong, Queen's University at Kingston, Rhodes University, Stellenbosch University, and University of Victoria). In the .pdf all the links within a single line point to the article which is the last on the same line in the download. That looks like a Wikipedia bug, nothing to do with any shortcomings in the draft. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:59, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

After trying some other articles in mainspace, just in case there was something odd with the sandbox , I found that the bug is not always obvious but is certainly present in mesotrione, for example in the section Mesotrione#Agricultural use which has a large number of consecutive wikilinks to species names. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:12, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Tried a few strategies to separate the Wikilinks [including <br >] but the only way I found to work reliably was bullet pointing the line with The Education University of Hong Kong, Queen's University at Kingston, Rhodes University, Stellenbosch University, and University of Victoria. Billyboybliss (talk) 10:16, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Biography Removed From Wikipedia - Please Help

Hello, I am new here and would definitely like some help. I wrote the following article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Hygord_Am%C3%A9d%C3%A9e , it was published to wikipedia, and then taken down the next day. :( I was wondering what exactly can I do to get it republished. I included resources and links to the publications (books) written by this individual. Any and all guidance would greatly be appreciated. Manywords4u (talk) 23:36, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Manywords4u Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Your draft is completely unsourced. An article about a person must summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about the person, showing how they meet the special Wikipedia definition of a notable person. You're kinda doing this backwards; you've written a text, but have no sources. This is akin to building a house without first building the foundation. You should gather the sources first so you have them to summarize. Please read Your First Article. What sources do you have? 331dot (talk) 23:47, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

NOT REMOVED. Per the article's View history, it was moved to Draft:Hygord Amédée. Listing books by a person is allowed, but contributes nothing toward notability, especially if self-published. David notMD (talk) 02:59, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

All of the information about his education and career positions needs to be verified by references. David notMD (talk) 09:03, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoff_Lord

Hi there, I made changes to Geoff Lord's page however it has now reverted to the old information again. I can't see any communication notifying me what I did incorrectly so I can ensure that the new information is used. Are you able to assist? Fairlight6 (talk) 00:43, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Fairlight6: Welcome to the Teahouse. The revert in question (which you can see by going to Special:History/Geoff Lord) was concerned that your edit had a promotional tone. Looking at phrases like

Geoff Lord’s mission in life is to get one million kids moving[1] every year via Belgravia Group’s various initiatives including learn to swim programs.

and

Geoff puts his success in business down to persistence, determination and empowering his teams, and lives by a quote by Calvin Coolidge

it was an appropriate revert. Please review Wikipedia:NOTPROMOTION, as that is not the goal of Wikipedia. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:21, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your help Tenryuu. I will remove those phrases and anything else I think might sound like promotion. Is there a way to edit the content that I originally changed, or do I need to start from scratch with my editing? Fairlight6 (talk) 01:25, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Also, your image is in violation of copyright so I tagged it for speedy deletion. You have to show they released the image under a creative commons license or it is in the public domain. PalauanReich (talk) 01:28, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Fairlight6, and welcome to the Teahouse.

The version with all your edits is still there in the article's history, and you can copy sections of it to use.

I suggest that you make a number of smaller edits rather than one big one, so if parts of it are still felt to be promotional, only those parts will be reverted. ColinFine (talk) 12:36, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Please note that Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. ColinFine (talk) 12:38, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Fairlight6 Also note that people are referred to by their last name, not their first name. So, don't use "Geoff" in the article; instead, use "Lord". David10244 (talk) 13:16, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Adding to an Wikipedia article a reference to one's own research?

My book 'There was a garden in Nuremberg' is based on known facts bolstered by research. Though it is a novel, it includes a reference list to the sources consulted. Those sources are in a foreign language, so may not be accessible to an English speaker. May I insert the details of my book where relevant? As an example, the page of Benno Martin has a narrow coverage which I can expand. My knowledge is based on a German book by Hugo Grieser, "Himmlers Mann in Nuernberg" published by the Nuremberg City Archive. Thanks! Michalsuz Michalsuz2 (talk) 02:59, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Michalsuz2: It would be best if you cited the original sources, even if not in English. Non-English sources are not a problem. If you want to cite your own book, don't do it. You may suggest it on the article talk page and see what others say about it. ~Anachronist (talk) 03:05, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

OK, thank you! Shall do. Michalsuz2 (talk) 03:11, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

You can't cite a novel as a source for historical facts. If the sources are published secondary sources, cite those. -- asilvering (talk) 03:15, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes of course, I should have thought of that myself. Michalsuz2 (talk) 03:19, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Michalsuz2, when English language sources are abundant, as when writing about any American president or British monarch, then the best of those English language sources are preferred as references. When English language sources are sparse and sources in other languages are clearly superior, then it is perfectly acceptable to cite sources in other languages. Just provide complete bibliographic details and be prepared to furnish translations of the relevant passages if asked. Cullen328 (talk) 08:10, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I slightly disagree. Obviously the fictional section of the novel cannot be quoted as factual. That includes actual events that were put in the book, because it would take original research to know what is and is not fictional. For instance, The Prague Cemetery includes many accurate details about the Expedition of the Thousand, but it would be improper to cite it for those details.

However, a novel might include a preface, or notes by a translator, or similar material of a non-fictional nature. Those could conceivably be cited. The usual precautions apply - an editor of a Shakespeare anthology might be reliable when it comes to the evolution of the sonnet form, but not about 16th-century Netherlands trade; the preface of "Alien Jewish Templars made the Pyramids and 9/11" is probably unreliable for anything. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 16:37, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I don't think we do disagree! All of those are "secondary sources", not the novel itself. -- asilvering (talk) 21:02, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Questions about posting photos

Hello. I really need some help with adding photos to one wikipedia page. I have added several photos to the page of Marian Lupu (english and russian version). He is currently the President of the Supreme Audit Institution of the Republic of Moldova, used to be the President of the Parliament of Moldova and even the interim President of the Republic. In wikipedia there is only one photo with him and Dmitrii Medvedev, which is not relevant. Mr. Lupu had a lot of meetings with officials and I wanted to add photos that show his relation with personalities around the world. I have put photos on his wikipedia pages, but they were deleted. Why did that happen? Isn't it ok to add photos, if they are personal ones, photographed by the photographer of Mr. Lupu and are his own photos. Thank you very much! CristinaHanganu (talk) 06:31, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

CristinaHanganu Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You added a large number of images- probably too many- and claimed them as your own work in terms of copyright. This would mean that you personally took them with your own camera. Is that true? Do you work for the Moldovan government or represent Marian Lupu? 331dot (talk) 06:39, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

CristinaHanganu, when you wrote photographed by the photographer of Mr. Lupu and are his own photos, then that is powerful evidence that these photos are not your "own work" and have therefore been improperly licensed. The copyright is held either by the photographer, or if he or she has a written contract assigning the copyright, it is then held by Marian Lupu. But not by you, except under exceptionally unusual circumstances. Only the copyright holder and no other person can freely license a photo, and the licensing must be done correctly. This is a legal transaction. Cullen328 (talk) 08:01, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I might try to find a place at Commons to suggest that "Own Work" is changed to "My Own Work". Isn't that a bit more emphatic? David10244 (talk) 13:21, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Apart from the question of licensing, CristinaHanganu, I wonder what encyclopaedic purpose would be served by "photos that show his relation with personalities around the world"? If the meetings in question were significant, and described with sources in the text of the article, that's one thing; but otherwise that sounds like promotion to me. The one photo still there is not tied to anything in the text (Medvedev is not mentioned in the text), but that's probably OK for one photo, but not for several. ColinFine (talk) 13:02, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Whether it would be appropriate to turn the article into a ten-photo-gallery is of course questionable and should be dealt with at trhe article talk page. However, Wikimedia Commons would be happy to host as many different photos as one can get under a proper license. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 16:30, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Notability Issue on the page

Dear Teahouse Members,

I need your help to make this page fit for Wikipedia. I have done some changes on the page suggested by Hoary but the issues are still there. Could you please suggest or made changes on the page?

Thanks Amitpandeys0281 (talk) 06:57, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

This seems to be about Stellar Data Recovery. A notability issue requires more good sources. Your user page, Amitpandeys0281, now says that you are being paid to edit. If you're being paid to edit this article, is it likely that those of us who are not being paid to do so will find good sources that have eluded you? One possibility is worth a thought: Perhaps there simply are no other good sources. -- Hoary (talk) 07:12, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Now that you have declared PAID, I removed the tag about suspected undeclared paid editing. David notMD (talk) 07:28, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Withdrawing AFD nomination

How can I withdraw an AFD nomination that was made in wrong assumptions. Mokshalini (talk) 09:08, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

See WP:WDAFD - X201 (talk) 09:46, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Mokshalini: if you're the nominator, you can withdraw it as detailed here: WP:WDAFD; otherwise you cannot. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:46, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Mokshalini (talk) 11:09, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Food Intake For The Whole Day

Dear Friends as I am a 64+ aged old but no so old guy I think that for Elderly Gentlemen easy Diet and regular soft Exercises should be natural ! March21st23 (talk) 12:35, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@March21st23 Welcome to the Teahouse. Do you have a question about using or editing Wikipedia, which is what this page is for? Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:55, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Trying to get adding dates in volcano eruption list

How i add dates to volcano eruption list? Jovandrisus777 (talk) 13:19, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Jovandrisus777: Welcome to the Teahouse! I see you made some edits to the List of large volcanic eruptions article which were reverted. My guess is that they were reverted because you did not include a reliable source for the date you added. Per the Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, I suggest you create a post at the article's talk page - Talk:List of large volcanic eruptions - to discuss your suggestions with other editors and come to a consensus. Thanks for your desire to improve Wikipedia! GoingBatty (talk) 13:24, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

When can I remove the Orphan message?

I added a link on a different page, but the message is still there. Can I remove it myself? Or does someone else have to do it for me? Concerning page: Battle of Poti (1993) Thanks! GeneralCraft65 (talk) 14:22, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Maintenance messages like that do not get removed (or placed) automaticall, GeneralCraft65. If you believe the message no longer applies, you may remove it. ColinFine (talk) 14:30, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

The template doesn't go away on its own. It has to be manually removed. You can remove it yourself.Cwater1 (talk) 14:31, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@ColinFine, @Cwater1: BattyBot has been removing unneeded {{orphan}} templates for over a decade when an article has more than two incoming links. I try to run it at least once a month.

@GeneralCraft65: I added a link from Occupation of Poti to Battle of Poti (1993). One more incoming link, and BattyBot will remove the template on its next run. Or, you could remove it manually as suggested above. GoingBatty (talk) 20:22, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@GeneralCraft65, when I look at the list of 'what links here', there are only a few links. It's a fairly long article with plenty of outgoing links; the thing to do is assess each of those links to see if a link back to the Battle of Poti is appropriate. Don't try to shoehorn anything in, but if there's a natural place to link back, place that link. Once you've connected as many links as you can back to that article, remove the tag. Valereee (talk) 16:27, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Conflict of interest

I am concerned about a potential conflict of interest occurring on the fermion doubling article. In the resolutions section, recent edits by User:EverettYou and IP editor 65.112.8.21 have added a significant entry about Symmetric Mass Generation (SMG). The papers on this topic were primarily written by You and co-authors, and thus they cite themselves a lot, possibly too much. They are legit high quality researchers, so that's not the issue. The issue is that it seems to be a conflict of interest, leading to an undue emphasis on this particular resolution to the problem compared to others; a paragraph is now dedicated to it with 9 citations, most by You and Wang. I take the view that a sentence with one or two citations would suffice, just like the other (much more important) resolutions mentioned in the article. Compared to the other resolutions, this is a very novel one and very minor one. A lot of other minor resolutions exist that are not mentioned in the article for this same reason, but I fear that since You and IP editor 65.112.8.21 are the ones editing the article, they are placing too much emphasis on their own work.

I'm not sure how to deal with and what the correct resolution to the issue should be. OpenScience709 (talk) 14:32, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Conflict of interest related issues should be discussed at WP:COIN. 331dot (talk) 14:34, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Right, thanks. How do I move this there? Or do I just re-post it there? Best, OpenScience709 (talk) 14:35, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@OpenScience709, just post it there in a new section. Valereee (talk) 16:24, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Advice needed over review process of draft page

Hello, Newbie here, so apologies if I've done anything idiotic. I created a draft for a page on a company I used to work for and have submitted it for review. I'm looking for advice on anything I should/can do to improve the chances of it being reviewed in the quickest possible time. No doubt because of my inexperience, I'm not sure exactly where the page now sits and if it can be lost in the system. So, any advice and knowledge you could share about 'what happens next' and what more I should do would be gratefully received. Thanks in advance, Simon PageSJ (talk) 14:51, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Draft:Innova Market Insights - 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:52, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

PageSJ, I recommend reading Wikipedia:Plain and simple conflict of interest guide. This will help you understand what the Wikipedia community's expectations are regarding your link to the company.

Regarding your draft, the draft won't disappear or get lost in the system. It is now "waiting for review", meaning an experienced editor will look at it and then either accept the submission or give feedback on how to improve the page. The guideline Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) contains information on how the reviewer will judge the submission's notability (i.e. if it merits having an article on Wikipedia). Hope this helps! If not, please feel free to notify me of further questions using the {{u}} or {{ping}} templates (for information on how to use templates, see Help:A quick guide to templates). — Ixtal ^{( T / C )} ⁂ Non nobis solum. 14:56, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. That's demystified it for me. I'll also properly read those links. Really appreciate the response. PageSJ (talk) 17:38, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Simon, and welcome to the Teahouse. Well, the first couple of citations are to articles by (or quoting) somebody from Innova. They will not help your draft get accepted, not one tiny little bit. They do not count in any way towards establishing the company as notable, and they may very well be a turnoff for a reviewer who has to wade through them to see if there are any independent sources - which are what you need. And looking through the list of citations, I'm not hopeful that any of them are independent sources which devote significant coverage to the company. If I'm wrong, get rid of all the dross so that the independent sources are easily seen - and make sure that only what is in those independent sources goes into the article: remember that Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources.

If you haven't got sources that meet 42, give up and write about something else. ColinFine (talk) 16:58, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply and give advice. I was trying to establish the company is real and long standing. Much of the coverage will be trade press - nature of the beast, etc. I'll search around for other more acceptable sources. Appreciate the feedback. Cheers. PageSJ (talk) 17:38, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, again. Trade press can be helpful, but often they just either print a press release (not independent), or report routine activities like appointing directors or issuing annual report (not significant coverage). If Innova is a name that is only known to industry insiders, it may very well not be notable in Wikipedia's terms. ColinFine (talk) 19:00, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. I understand. I'll seek out more independent sources. PageSJ (talk) 20:24, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@PageSJ, something that's often counterintuitive for new editors is that "real and longstanding" isn't what Wikipedia cares about. It literally doesn't matter to us that the subject exists. What we care about, when deciding whether a subject should have an article, is at least three instances of significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. And to start out with we'd actually prefer you don't provide more than three. We want to see the three best sources. That lets us assess notability without having to wade through 35 sources that may or may not support a claim to notability. Which three and only three of those sources best represent significant coverage in independent reliable sources? Valereee (talk) 20:52, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. You're absolutely right, I would have thought the opposite. Am I better off removing most of the sources in the first instance and leaving just a few significant sources? My concern is also the need to back up the entire content of the draft. I'm trying to avoid showing notability only, but then leaving a lot of 'citation needed' copy. Cheers, Simon PageSJ (talk) 06:48, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@PageSJ, no, you don't need to remove sources. (Although nothing is ever lost, a previous version is always available to be restored, as long as there were no copyright violations and a few other limited cases where content is deleted completely, and even then an admin can usually help.) What you need to do is figure out which of the 35 sources are the three and only three best for supporting a claim to notability. ColinFine's post above gives links to read to help you figure out which of the sources are the three best. Valereee (talk) 13:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

This Edit War needs to end

Editors User David10244, User Tacyarg, User Kuru, User Hey man im josh, User universalsunset that Jessica Nabongo was the second Black woman to travel to every country after Woni Spotts.

User K.Nevelsteen and others keep reverting the page to say Nabongo is first and he added promotional material. Citations show that Woni Spotts is first and that Jessica Nabongo is not even second because she did not visit Syria. She visited Golan Heights, Israel, and was unable to enter Syria. She claims Guinness books said Golan Heights is Syria but Guinness is not a reliable source, according to Wikipedia. The United States and Brittanica say it's Israel.

What can be done to stablize this page? 2600:8802:3A12:E700:CD6C:5BF3:8CD1:3465 (talk) 14:57, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. This is not the correct venue to handle this issue. If resolving it on the talk page isn't working, you are going to want either the edit warring noticeboard or dispute resolution. Failing that, the administrators noticeboard for incidents is a last resort. Read those pages carefully in order to create a properly-formatted report. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 15:13, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Declined Page

Hello, My name is Toni. I tried adding a Nigerian official to Wikipedia and the review was declined. It's my first doing it. I need support on it please Toniventure (talk) 15:04, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Draft:Saratu Altine Umar Tails Wx 15:06, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Toniventure, the three sources provided don't seem to represent WP:significant coverage in WP:reliable sources that are WP:independent of the subject. They all appear to be mere announcements of her appointment, probably generated from press releases from the agency employing her. Unless the office itself is considered to confer WP:notability, she may not be notable by Wikipedia standards. I know it's a lot to take in, but please read all of those links, and then come back here to discuss. Valereee (talk) 16:13, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Citing offline sources template

Hello, would appreciate some guidance as far as how to (and also if it’s okay) cite offline sources? ie. Older newspaper articles etc. what would the template look like? Thank you all Owlman67a (talk) 15:49, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Owlman67a Welcome to Wikipedia. Offline sources are fine: see WP:OFFLINE. The standard templates such as {{cite news}} work perfectly well. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:14, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Mike! That‘s great! Owlman67a (talk) 16:44, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Owlman67a. The most important thing when citing offline sources is to provide complete bibliographic information. For a newspaper article, this includes the full title, the author(s) if listed, the name of the newspaper (Wikilinked if the newspaper has an article), the city of publication if not part of the name of the newspaper, the publication date, and the page number. Cullen328 (talk) 17:58, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Editing Child sex abuse article which is semi-protected

This page is semi-protected so that only autoconfirmed users can edit it. I need help getting started with editing, and was invited to visit the Teahouse. Sukusala (talk) 15:53, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Sukusala, I recommend you file an edit request on the article's talk page to propose the changes you want to see implemented in the article. You can read examples of sample edit requests in the sample edit requests page. I'd recommend proposing small, incremental changes as you are a new editor. I'm sure the editors in the article's talk page will gladly help you out :) — Ixtal ^{( T / C )} ⁂ Non nobis solum. 16:01, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Just realized you are indeed autoconfirmed as extended confirmation supersedes autoconfirmation and were able to edit the page, my apologies. — Ixtal ^{( T / C )} ⁂ Non nobis solum. 16:03, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Sukusala (talk) 16:06, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Suskala, I think you're asking how to get started editing that page? What is it you want to do there? Do you understand our WP:sourcing requirements for changing content? Valereee (talk) 16:20, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Ugh, broke the ping. @Sukusala. Valereee (talk) 16:20, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Valereee, I added some new sections. I hope it's alright. Sukusala (talk) 18:25, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Sukusala, the way we know is if other editors revert. If that happens, open a section at the article talk and ping them to discuss. Valereee (talk) 18:36, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Wasell was the editor who reverted all of your edits. By pinging here, telling Wasell that you wish to go ahead with some of the revisions - asking which OK and which not. The article's Talk page, where you have started a discussion, is the right place going forward. David notMD (talk) 03:19, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Noob trying to deal sensibly with edit war

Hi! In my first few non-anonymous edits I'm being reverted and have hit a three-edit limit. Well and good, I can see its a controversial topic, I'll calm down and try to resolve. But I've been told I can't refer to court judgements. Is this right? I can't find a rule? One ninety three lordy me (talk) 22:58, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

One ninety three lordy me, I'm puzzled by your reference to your "first few non-anonymous edits". Your list of contributions shows an editing history of just one day, but within this one day what I think is a list of more bytes shunted in and out of more articles than I've ever achieved/perpetrated in a single day during well over a decade of editing. Calming down might beneficially include limiting your substantive edits (as opposed to fixing spelling mistakes and the like) to two or three articles in any one day. As for your question, you're welcome to refer to accounts in reliable sources of court judgments. Court judgments themselves? No. -- Hoary (talk) 23:13, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@One ninety three lordy me You seem to have been given a very detailed explanation at User_talk:Ponyo#Q around court documents. Important court decisions are likely to have been reported in WP:SECONDARY sources such as newspapers, which provided they are reliable sources, are preferred. Mike Turnbull (talk) 23:14, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Mike Turnbull Yeah I just saw the detailed response and it makes sense - I should have waited for it

@Hoary I chose topics on the introduction tutorial and I got a list of suggested pages to edit! I was having fun too

Sorry to bother, I don't think this place is for me. One ninety three lordy me (talk) 23:19, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I need to delete this image

Banana4516 (talk) 00:09, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Banana4516 Welcome to Teahouse! Do you mean this image File:Logo_for_Chungbuk_University.png? What is your rationale for deleting it? Wikipedia:Files for discussion has some example criterias for removing files hosted on Wikipedia (as opposed to Wikimedia Commons). ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 00:20, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

I tried to update my uni's logo, but now I'm worrying about the 'copyright'. I think that I've violated copyright policy Banana4516 (talk) 00:45, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Banana4516, no, you should be completely fine. User:DatBot has automatically made the file smaller and has tagged the previous non-free versions of the file for deletion. This means that the image complies with WP:FAIRUSE (or will in a short time). Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 01:16, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Oh really?? Thank you so much 🥺 Banana4516 (talk) 01:20, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Started a draft related to Donald Trump. Could someone look at it and let me know if the topic would even be worthy of a mainspace article if it is a fully developed draft?

I just created a draft about possible indictments against former president Donald Trump at Draft:Indictments against Donald Trump. Could someone (or multiple people) look at it and let me know if the topic, if the draft is fully developed, might possibly be noteable enough for a mainspace article? I don't want to continue working on it if there is a low chance that it is. That is also why it is a very short draft at the moment. I am leaning towards the article being noteable since several criminal cases that may lead to indictments have been covered by major news services a ton. There are also already several mainspace articles either directly about some of those criminal cases, or that have sections in them about one or more of those cases.

Thanks in advance to anyone who takes a look at the draft I just started. Greshthegreat (talk) 02:01, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Response on talk page of draft. Slywriter (talk) 02:27, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Greshthegreat: I think it's too soon for such an article. There would have to be more than one actual indictments against Trump for such an article to be relevant. GoingBatty (talk) 02:37, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Ok. In that case I'll just keep the draft up as is (unless no indictments are given in the next few months, as I don't want to keep a draft not ready for the mainspace up forever), and maybe make a few minor edits. Unless he is indicted, in which case I'd help really expand the draft. I do think just one indictment would be noteable enough for an article, and multiple wouldn't be necessary, since no former U.S. president has ever been indicted. That alone would make an indictment against Trump a very big deal, let alone anything else regarding it, such as what the criminal case itself is/was about. Greshthegreat (talk) 02:46, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Greshthegreat: The WP:CRYSTAL policy is applicable here. The draft is speculative at this point. ~Anachronist (talk) 03:23, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Good to know about those policies. Your right that it is largely speculative, in this case, as to wether Trump will be indicted or not in any of his criminal cases. In that case, it definitely will remain as a draft unless Trump is in fact indicted or he isn't in the next few months, and in that case deleting the draft might be considered depending on the situation then. Greshthegreat (talk) 04:30, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Greshthegreat, perhaps you know this, but drafts that are unedited for 6 months gets automatically deleted (you get a warning first, so you can make a "saving" edit if you want). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:23, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

In my experience any warning notice notice about deletion of a draft after 6 months is usually followed within minutes by actual deletion. It can be appealed, see WP:REFUND. But I'm sure by then we will either have a notable topic... or a non-story. Nick Moyes (talk) 12:17, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, but it seems you get a 5-months warning before that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:54, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

This topic is not notable now but it could well be notable in days or weeks to come. Be patient and ready to update your draft. Being first on a breaking story is not a prize or a badge of honor. Quality editing is vastly more important than a "scoop". Cullen328 (talk) 08:49, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Still...

"He appended links to a couple of sources deemed “reliable” by the community—NPR and The Washington Post—clicked save, and notified some other editors about his article. It was tentatively titled “January 2021 Donald Trump Rally.”"

But fully agree on quality editing, of course. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:58, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Bhai Nand Lal source translation

So this is more or less a follow up to my previous post I made yesterday. I’m copy-editing the page Bhai Nand Lal, and there’s a line which is very unclear (in the careers section). I am trying to check the source, and it appears to be a long book called Mahan Kosh (Sikh encyclopedia?) in Punjabi. The page referenced is page 2597, and English translations I could get are only available till 2000 pages (roughly). Any help would be appreciated in translating page 2597 of this encyclopedia.

Referenced source link (download the second one, it’s already dropped down for you):https://rarasahib.com/online-library/#fbb2a23be9a59ca04 Vamsi20 (talk) 02:06, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Vamsi20: Welcome to the Teahouse! You could also try using WikiBlame to determine which editor added the line, and ask them for clarification. You could also post your question on the article's talk page - Talk:Bhai Nand Lal - and specify exactly which sentence you find unclear. You could post on the appropriate WikiProject talk page(s) and ask editors to respond to the article talk page discussion. Hope this helps, and happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 02:30, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Vamsi20 (talk) 19:07, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Under the heading of the sacraments of the lcc , I added what the seven sacraments are and somebody calling themselves the light keeper, say's it was not constructive . Really ? What dose the light keeper know about the sacraments?.

Under the heading of the sacraments of the lcc , I added what the seven sacraments are and somebody calling themselves the light keeper, say's it was not constructive . Really ? What does the light keeper know about the sacraments?. 101.100.129.61 (talk) 03:05, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

What you wrote violated the WP:NPOV policy and you did not cite a source, violating the WP:Verifiability policy. Expertise is not required, sources are what matter. ~Anachronist (talk) 03:21, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that was a horrible edit, completely inappropriate for many reasons for a neutrally and competently written encyclopedia article. Cullen328 (talk) 08:40, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

You're asking about this edit. TheLightDeveloper did the right thing, and I warmly agree with Anachronist. Incidentally, even if your edit hadn't violated "WP:NPOV" and had cited a source, I'd have reverted it for its misuse of capitalization. -- Hoary (talk) 06:29, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Travis Fimmel Page Addition

Hello, I just finished watching 3 mini episodes on the Roku channel called "50 States of Fright". Travis Fimmel stars in the episodes called "The Golden Arm (Michigan)" Season 1 Episodes 1-3. It was created in 2020. His character's name is Dave. I'm not up for the editing, but I was hoping it may be simple enough to install. Web pages can be easily found to back the information. Would someone be interested in adding this? 2600:6C48:5400:7EB0:6496:5E80:D8B2:6B2A (talk) 03:52, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

If you want some information corrected in or added to the article Travis Fimmel, then you're free to suggest this -- of course specifying a reliable source or two -- at the foot of Talk:Travis Fimmel. If on the other hand you want somebody to create an article, or a set of three articles, this is unlikely to happen, as everyone has their own interests. You could, however, create the draft for an article yourself. -- Hoary (talk) 06:20, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

The shortcut is WP:GOFIXIT. Cullen328 (talk) 08:35, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Topicons

Is there a page that lists all the topicons? ✠ Robertus Pius ✠ (Talk • Contribs) 04:48, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Category:Top icon templates is probably a good start. Shells-shells (talk) 06:31, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Where do I post ui bugs

I'm recently seeing an issue where I have two add topic buttons, one grey and one blue. Seems like an oversight in not hiding elements as the workflow changes. Where can I report this behavior? Very Average Editor (talk) 06:39, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Very Average Editor, you might start by going to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical), reading what's written at its head, and then deciding where best to bring up the matter. -- Hoary (talk) 08:26, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Castor Wheel Manufacturers

We are one of the leading Castor Wheels manufacturers in India. We offer high-quality wide range of castor wheels that are implemented to different specific purposes at commercial and residential premises. Our range includes Bobby Castors, Mini Six Wheel and Six Wheel Castors, Four Wheel Castors, Eight Wheel Castors, Delrin With Bearing, Ball Castor Plates, Twin Wheel Castors, and Fixed Castors. As a Castor Wheels manufacturer, we make it a point to offer products that have a very smooth gliding effect on tiles as well as carpets, thus making it useful in sofas, tables, chairs, and other various furniture items to achieve mobility while adding a modern look. Kaizonhardware (talk) 12:13, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello Kaizonhardware. You appear to be mistaking Wikipedia for a business directory, or social media. It is neither: see what Wikipedia is not. If your company meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability, then there could be an article on it. Such an article would not belong to your or your company, would not be controlled by you, would not necessarily say what you wanted it to say, and would be based on what people wholly unconnected with your company had chosen to publish about your company (good and bad), not on what you or your associates say or want to say. ColinFine (talk) 12:19, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

So what ? Fishing Publication (talk) 12:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

So, the advice by ColinFine is that it is extremely unlikely that a company that makes castor wheels rises to qualify as the subject of an article. Kaizonhardware - who's User name is disqualifying as being that of a company - should look at WP:BACKWARD and WP:42 to decide if references can by found that meet Wikipedia's requirements. David notMD (talk) 12:46, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Ah, but I wasn't replying to him, I understood his comments perfectly well, I was replying to the other gentleman, a sort of a more pointed challenge to his remarks about the wheels Fishing Publication (talk) 13:04, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

So, @Fishing Publication, "So what?" is not really a helpful comment here at Teahouse, where we try to treat extremely new editors with kindness, even those whose contributions show they misunderstand what Wikipedia is about. I see that you are very new yourself, and we do welcome your contributions here, but it's better to just read here for a while so you can learn the culture before you start answering posts. Valereee (talk) 14:35, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

That wasn't even a request for help. It didn't even ask a question. It was nothing more than an advertisement placed on this page, pure and simple. It should have been reverted on sight, not used as a starting point for discussion. I'm going to block that account now. ~Anachronist (talk) 14:54, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Meh, I think it's an implied request of 'shouldn't there be an article about us?' Possibly created by someone whose first language isn't English. Agree with the block for username vio, though. :D Valereee (talk) 15:15, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Google search results in wiki talking readers to my talk page Talk:Lee Youn Chin

Hi Wiki helpers,

Problems 1) redirect issue? 2) Category Lee Youn Chin in red? 3)Google search shows Talk:Lee Youn Chin and not the article!

I'd appreciate to know how my new article on- Lee Youn Chin would not take readers to wiki talk page.

Please help what code I must put to redirect to the Article and not Talk.

I tried #redirect from the Talk page thinking it would fix, instead it now shows on my redirect Draft Talk!!!

Only by Clicking on the Article it will take you to wiki article on the subject.

I would be grateful for your help to fix this.

Thanks and have a great day!

Setwikirec0 (talk) 12:52, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Setwikirec0 As Lee Youn Chin died in 1991, I doubt that he is you. What Google does, you have to take up with them. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:56, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

... and the redirect on your User page can be removed by you at any time. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:59, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Mike for your prompt reply! Do I have to create my Userpage and redirect from there? I was reading Wiki User pages and right now mine is the default when I created the account. Its in here I create my info and then redirect to the article name? Thx Setwikirec0 (talk) 15:03, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Setwikirec0 I've blanked your User Page so it will no longer re-direct to the article. You can now easily add to it again by clicking on your Username and editing as normal to add material following the guidance at WP:UPYES. If you wish to declare your WP:COI with Lee Youn Chin, you can do so there also (you have already done so at the Talk Page of the article you drafted, which is fine). I'll add some comments about the article on its Talk Page in a moment. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:20, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi Mike,

I do not understand "blanked your User page so it will no longer re-direct to the article"

Kindly do not do that as not being able to publish my Article myself or no longer to re-direct is not agreeable to me. I think something is very wrong and need you to revert what you did. Pls excuse me for my language or disappointment here. Setwikirec0 (talk) 14:00, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

The article is available at Lee Youn Chin. Why Google is showing the talk page before the article, I have no idea, but redirecting the talk page is also not the right answer. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 14:07, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

It is simply that the new pages patrol have not yet approved the article, so it is not yet indexed by search engines. Meanwhile, goodness knows what Google have for that name. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:12, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Foreign Website/Book Template for Citations

Hi,

What's the citation code for a Foreign Website/Book Template?

Thanks KatoKungLee (talk) 12:54, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by "citation code", KatoKungLee. I guess that by "foreign" you mean "in a language other than English". If so, then Template:Cite book and Template:Cite web both have attributes allowing you to present the title, etc, in non-Roman script, to specify the language, to provide an English translation of the title, etc, and more. If you have a specific question about one or other of these templates, feel free to ask. -- Hoary (talk) 12:59, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, that's perfect.KatoKungLee (talk) 13:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

User Malfunctions

When would be a good time to use a user malfunction button if they have a button on their user page? Give me some examples. AirmanKitten203 (talk) 15:04, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @AirmanKitten203, welcome to the Teahouse. What do you mean by a "user malfunction button"? If the account is a bot, there is often a Stop button of some kind, but there is no such thing for regular users (unless they put something up on their user page for fun, in which case there are no rules about it, other than any they may add along with the button). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:12, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Ok. AirmanKitten203 (talk) 15:18, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@AirmanKitten203: Judging by your userpage, you are asking about the language at Template:Emergency-user-slap. That is an in-Wikipedia joke combining two things:

• WP:TROUT: an internet tradition of (virtually) slapping another user with a trout when they did something silly. See that page. On Wikipedia, "trouting" refers to placing one of the various trout templates on a userpage. That serves to communicate that a user did something silly, not serious enough to warrant actual sanctions, but serious enough to deserve a "formal" (?) warning.
• Template:EBS: the emergency stop button for bots (= automated accounts) which says Administrators: Use this button if the bot is malfunctioning. Non-administrators can report a malfunctioning bot to ANI.

The emergency-user-slap template uses wording similar to the EBS template, implying that users can be "malfunctioning", for humorous effect. (As usual, a joke is not very funny when it needs to be explained.) Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 15:36, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Ah, okay. I should have read more about it before asking a question. Thank you for your time and sorry for the disruption. AirmanKitten203 (talk) 15:38, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Don’t worry about it AirmanKitten203. The Teahouse welcomes any (Wikipedia-related) question, no matter how simple it may seem once one knows the answer. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 16:46, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Marin Local Music

Hi everyone. My "suggested edits" list took me to the Wikipedia article on "Marin Local Music", and I noticed that the article looks like an advertisement rather than an unbiased encyclopedia entry. There are some links to news articles on the topic, but they appear to be promotional in nature. How do I get the page deleted or reviewed by other editors? Yellowstone caldera (talk) 17:32, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Yellowstone caldera: Welcome to the Teahouse! You could add yet another template (e.g. {{notability}}), but the article has had templates on it for almost a decade. You could also follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion if you like. Hope this helps, and happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 17:51, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your response and for your guidance. I appreciate it! I will definitely take a look at the instructions. I will return if I need more help. Yellowstone caldera (talk) 17:53, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Why am I getting a warning of "In response to an ongoing pattern of abuse, an automated filter has prevented this edit." when I am following instructions of "Consider letting the authors know on their talk page"? I want to let authors know, but I am being warned and blocked. Yellowstone caldera (talk) 18:10, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Yellowstone caldera, and welcome to the Teahouse. I don't know what's triggered the filter (it just says "Talk page disruption"); but I notice that Band of Mountains's only contribution to Marin Local Music was to remove some material ("deleted unnecessary material of personal opinions with no source"), so it doesn't look as if they have any particular investment or interest in the article. ColinFine (talk) 18:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry investigations

Am I allowed to file a SPI even if both of the accounts I suspect to be sockpuppets are indef blocked and unable to create an account? Shadow of the Starlit Sky (talk) 17:58, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Shadow of the Starlit Sky welcome to Teahouse! I checked the talk page archive, it seems there are differing opinions. The active harm caused by an indef blocked user is lower, but it can be useful for establishing a larger paper trail/archive of actions taken in an investigation. See Wikipedia_talk:Sockpuppet_investigations/Archives/Archive12#Reporting_socks_already_blocked_as_socks ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 23:27, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Editor Reinserting Odd Change; Now What?

I'm having a bit of a content dispute with a user for my first time. AsaneBane still hasn't ceased adding the irrelevant addition to Bane (DC Comics) despite my pushback and now I'm at the stage where I don't know what I am doing. How can one get this resolved? ~GoatLordServant^(Talk) 18:04, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, GoatLordServant, and welcome to the Teahouse. Please see Dispute resolution for the options. ColinFine (talk) 18:29, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Editing

Why are some factual edits removed? 71.43.129.106 (talk) 18:25, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse! As posted on your user talk page, some good faith factual edits can be removed because they are not accompanied by a specific published reliable source for verifiability. When you have an edit that has been reverted, you may follow the Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle and post on the article's talk page (e.g. Talk:John Campea) to discuss your suggestions and come to consensus. Hope this helps, and happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 18:42, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

In addition to what GoingBatty says, your edit to John Campea (which I guess is what this question is about) told the reader in Wikipedia's voice what Campea likes and doesn't like. That is not a neutral use of language, so it is not appropriate. ColinFine (talk) 19:04, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

What to do when the information you want to link to is at a specific point in an article

I noticed that the mushroom kingdom page has refrence to subcon but doesnt explain it. I wanted to link to the mario article that contained the information on it but it is in one of the fold up tab things and not visible from page open. Can I use the link system that some articles use to bring you directly to the fold tab and if so how would I go about that? Vagus in mundos litterarum (talk) 19:37, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Vagus, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm not sure quite where you want to link to (I can't find a section about subcon in any of the Mario articles) but in general you can link to a specific section of an article by using "#" and then the section title. So if you mean the section "Gameplay" in the article "Super Mario Bros. 2" then

[[Super Mario Bros. 2]]

links to the article, but

[[Super Mario Bros. 2#Gameplay]]

links to that section thus: Super Mario Bros. 2#Gameplay. ColinFine (talk) 20:22, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you that really helped and yes the link was for smb2 gameplay. Vagus in mundos litterarum (talk) 21:40, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Overuse of [show] and [hide] content sections making Wikipedia too cumbersome to use?

Consider the following sample content article... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development Note the sidebar at the right in which every few lines of information requires clicking the [show] link to view just a few elements of additional information. This makes Wikipedia too cumbersome to use and I wonder if there is a way to discourage this practice for new content by default? Mlegare16 (talk) 20:07, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Mlegare, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about, and it makes a big difference what you are looking at it on. On my computer I see no show/hide sections at all. On the Wikipedia app, I see just three instances in a long article: these are tables, which show normally on my computer, but are collapsed by default on the app.

If I look in a browser on my phone, I see that each section of the article is collapsed: is that what you're talking about? In that case, I'm afraid that there's not likely to be much you can do about that. Articles that are not divided into sections are awkward and unwieldy to read. ColinFine (talk) 20:30, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

They're talking about the sidebar. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 20:31, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I'm talking about the sidebar section in this example. Organizing into sections is great, but hiding just a few lines of content behind a control that requires user interaction to view seems to only waste time and focus. This is quite different from being able to skip to a relevent sub-section by having section links at the beginning of the article in long articles requiring scrolling to read since clicking is not required to see the additional content. Mlegare16 (talk) 21:13, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

The place to bring this up is Template talk:Software development process. It's definitely not normal for sidebar templates to have nothing showing by default. -- asilvering (talk) 22:10, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

I've expanded the relevant section of the template. This is the normal way to display sidebars so I don't know if posting on one specific template's talk is the best way. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 22:15, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by "I've expanded the relevant section of the template." can you explain? Mlegare16 (talk) 02:47, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion asilvering. I reviewed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Software_development_process but it is unclear to me how to present my comment using the relevant Template talk vernacular. Mlegare16 (talk) 02:06, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps these sections cater to smaller screens. If so, I hope a way the collapsed (hidden) content sections could be expanded automatically by default on larger displays to as not to penalize users with larger screens by requiring a lot of manual interaction to view each content element. Mlegare16 (talk) 21:17, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Mlegare16: Welcome to the Teahouse. You may want to switch the skin to Vector Legacy (2010) to get everything on the left-hand side without the need for context menus. To do so, go to Preferences → Appearance → Skin → Vector legacy (2010). —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:42, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I had already done that since I think the old layout (Vector 2010) was much better. Mlegare16 (talk) 01:50, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@Mlegare16 - That’s great! Again, welcome to the Teahouse. Is there anything else we can help with? - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 01:59, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. If this is some default global setting for the editor that controls this behaviour (like a master sidebar template) ideally I'd like to post my comment to that team. Also, is any group out there advocating for a return to defaulting to Vector Legacy 2010 again, as Tenryuu's post reminded me that I have to login on each device I use (too many!) in order to control this preference. Mlegare16 (talk) 02:23, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

The RfC for defaulting back to the old skin has ended, and to my knowledge a closure review won't be available for quite some time. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:31, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Sad, but based on how much was in the RfC you refernced, I doubt a few more of my comments would have swayed the decision. Had I realized there was an RfC like that when the change was introduced, I definitely would have spoken up! Thanks for the info. Mlegare16 (talk) 02:44, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Number of editors over time

Why did the number of active editors on en.wikipedia.org increase exponentially until 2006, rapidly until March 2007, and then suddenly start declining, never having reached that level again? [1] 2601:640:4000:3170:D470:590F:B3D7:9D6B (talk) 20:37, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, IP editor. Good question. The answer lies in the rapid, accelerating rise and interest in Wikipedia in the first few years of its creation and then a settling down into a more routine form of support, with editors coming and going after that time. This kind of initial spike and levelling out is quite normal, in my opinion. Bear in mind that the initial interest and enthusiasm was probably all about creating new articles, whereas nowadays it's more about adding to and improving existing pages with completely new topics somewhat harder to find and write about. Does that make any sense? Nick Moyes (talk) 20:52, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

I think that helps to explain it. It's still weird that there was such a sudden spike and downturn. It reminds me of ecological graphs where rapid growth surpasses the carrying capacity and then crashes. https://effectivedemand.typepad.com/.a/6a017d42232dda970c01b7c718a48d970b-pi I've heard it referred to as J-curve. Oddly I couldn't find such a graph on Wikipedia. 2601:640:4000:3170:D470:590F:B3D7:9D6B (talk) 21:03, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

I found some over on Commons. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 21:20, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

What I find interesting about this is actually how stable it's been for the past decade or so. -- asilvering (talk) 22:12, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

I agree - that's actually quite encouraging. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:04, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: I find it discouraging, actually. Wikipedia is growing rapidly, there are millions more articles now than there were 15 years ago, Wikipedia is way more visible and ubiquitous than it used to be (top result in Google searches etc.), and yet the number of active editors has stayed the same. Therefore, the workload of monitoring and maintaining the site is increasing for everyone. The situation is even worse for administrators. I would find it more encouraging if the graph showed some growth in active users, to keep up with the growth of Wikipedia. ~Anachronist (talk) 03:04, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Given how arcane some of the policies and guidelines are here on (the English) Wikipedia, especially when it comes to dealing with what is considered notable by Wikipedia's definition, not to mention the minutiae of what's considered a reliable source, I'm not surprised that a portion of new users may be discouraged by this and stop contributing after being reverted or have had a draft declined. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:10, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

For a counterexample, I actually found the abundance of PAG on enwiki over other languages reassuring. Having many, precise guidelines is a prerequisite to and a result of collaborativly writing an encyclopedia with 6 million articles. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 05:58, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

In my opinion, the surge in editing in the 2006-2007 time frame was because Wikipedia was perceived as a fad in those days - the latest cool thing on the internet. So, people flocked here because there were unwritten articles about plenty of obviously notable topics. So, it became a social media bragging point to say, "Hey, I wrote a Wikipedia article!" but that is a less sustainable model than the World Hula Hoop Championship. I disagree that policies and guidelines are excessively arcane. Anyone willing to spend an open minded hour or two studying simple concepts like "notability" and "reliable sources" and "significant coverage" and "independent sources" can very rapidly develop into a productive generalist editor. The real problem is that far too many new editors are here to promote something, not to learn how this encyclopedia actually works. Cullen328 (talk) 07:42, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Yeah. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:39, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Anyone willing to spend an open minded hour or two studying simple concepts like "notability" and "reliable sources" and "significant coverage" and "independent sources" can very rapidly develop into a productive generalist editor.

This is exactly my experience, having started out about a year ago. It's only natural that to succeed as an editor, you need to put in the time and effort to figure out how things work over here. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 09:00, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

And you need to have the mindset that editing WP the WP-way is time well spent. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:07, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

As someone who signed up for the new editor mentor program, I am surprised but not shocked by the majority of new editors who make between one and five edits, often on the same day to one article, and are never again active. David notMD (talk) 11:35, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

I agree with David. Most new editors don't make it past about ten edits and there never was a "spike" in those editors who made 25 or more edits. As the top graph shows, there was a ramping up which ended in 2007 and the number of "25+" editors has remained nearly constant since then. However, I'd like to see the figures updated to 2023 because I'm pretty sure that the pandemic will have boosted "25+" editors since 2019, when that graph ends. Maybe Timeshifter would like to provide the update? Incidentally, there's a fuller page of stats (ending 2019) at this URL. Mike Turnbull(talk) 12:59, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Michael D. Turnbull. I don't see any later charts (of the same style) than the current one here:

File:Active editors on English Wikipedia over time.png

Maybe there are some other graphs. I haven't looked in awhile. Someone with more time and better health might do so.

--Timeshifter (talk) 21:18, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

I assume a lot of these people forget their login info and just start new accounts if they come back. You're not supposed to do that, sure, but someone who makes four edits and forgets their password before making any more is probably significantly more likely to be the kind of person who doesn't do any lurking in the policy pages before they start. (Of course, if you do do that lurking, you tend to get accused of being a sock.) -- asilvering (talk) 16:55, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Abandoning an account and starting with a new one, if not under sanctions, is fine, actually. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 17:01, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

A clean start is not the same as "serially creating new accounts". -- asilvering (talk) 17:16, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Ah, I didn't realize that's what you're talking about, or that people do that. In re sockpuppetry accusations, I've only seen that at RfA, and having done the lurking myself, have gotten away with it not been accused of anything so far. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 17:37, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Forced language reform

Hello. I am a member of a minority language (not part of UNESCO yet) which has it's own Wikipedia space(Vikipedeja). Recently we experienced a split in society, caused by a few people pushing trough a language reform and getting it approved by the national language institute. As a result, half of the people write with rules approved 2017, and half with historical rules of 1933. Just as an example, the biggest change would be the erasing of the letter "ō" and replacing it with "uo". Now the new law permits the equal use of both, but it still remains unfair, as the new one is forcing out the old one. Same issue with the Wiki. Someone has converted all pages to the new writing style. For some it now feels hard to read and tbh (personal opinion) feels like an insult as well.

Is it possible to do something about this? Like split a separate page or separate language version? Tehnically, we could simply adjust the existing pages, but I am not sure if engaging into a "edit-war" would be wise. Thank you for the advice in advance.

instead of keeping in f useair, all pages have been 90.139.250.80 (talk) 22:23, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm not clear on if this issue is on this version of Wikipedia or another. We can't really help you with issues on another version. 331dot (talk) 22:48, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

This sounds like a discussion to have on Vikipedeja, not here. You could spin out an "old orthography" version if you wanted to host one, though - there's no prohibition against creating new Wikipedia mirrors as far as I'm aware. -- asilvering (talk) 22:48, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Welcome IP user to Teahouse. English Wikipedia isn't necessarily the most helpful place to ask for support, but as a feature it exists on other language editions, for example Chinese Wikipedia has both simplified and traditional Mandarin mapping, Kazakh Wikipedia § Features maps Arabic, Cyrillic and Roman characters. I also attached a link so others know what Wikipedia edition you are referring to.

 Courtesy link: ltg:Suoku puslopa

I think your best place for requesting support is meta:Requests for new languages#Wikipedia. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 23:23, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

I think this is about one of the many language-versions of Wikipedia. The courtesy link provided about does not help me, as I can't read the language of the page it links to. I wonder if the language is one spoken in Ugandi, the south-easternmost province of Estonia. It might help if the OP would give the English name of the language. Maproom (talk) 00:24, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

The link is to the Latgalian language Wikipedia. ColinFine (talk) 10:26, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Putting a link twice

Hello. My question is, if a link to a page is already in a page, is it okay to mention that page (send a link to the page) later in the article? (Please use mobile and visual editor) 2600:1700:17C9:1020:9116:1C07:5DE0:AB42 (talk) 22:45, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Note that it shouldn't matter which version of Wikipedia other editors are using to respond to you. 331dot (talk) 22:47, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Usually articles are linked twice: once in the lede, and once again the first time they appear in the article body. -- asilvering (talk) 22:49, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

I do sometimes also add a second link if it's a) an important one and also b) if it's a long page and the topic reappears right down the page. Oh, and sometimes I might also repeat the link in an infobox. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:06, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

And maybe image captions. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:05, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

IP editor. You might like to read the guidance at MOS:LINK if you have not already done so. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:38, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Translation volunteer.

Helloo, I’m Brazilian and currently a translator student. I would like to know if it’s possible to be a volunteer on Wikipedia. That way I can train my translation skills and help disponibilize articles from English to Brazilian Portuguese and vice-versa. Dark Tea LK (talk) 23:51, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Dark Tea LK Welcome to Teahouse! Yes! In fact, most contributions here are made by bold volunteers like yourself. I will post on your talk page some introduction guidelines and policies you should be aware of before editing. Happy editing and learning! ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 23:54, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello. Dark Tea LK. Please read WP:TRANSLATE and WP:TRANSLATEUS. Pay special attention to the legal requirement to properly attribute the source material. Cullen328 (talk) 00:03, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi...Wikipedia:Pages needing translation into English needs some love too. Lectonar (talk) 09:08, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@Dark Tea LK I'm sad to inform you that "disponibilize" is not an English word, though clearly it should be. -- asilvering (talk) 16:51, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

regarding requesting for an edit

hello, i have been trying to change misinformation on article but site is denying my request because of lack of reliable sources? Sagarahir98 (talk) 02:33, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@Sagarahir98: So what is the problem? If you're referring to your edit requests on Talk:Attack on Titan, you did not provide any reliable source to support your requests. Facebook, YouTube, and Quora aren't reliable sources. Anything with user-generated content cannot be used. You need to find published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. ~Anachronist (talk) 02:56, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Also, you are abusing the Talk page Talk:Attack on Titan by having made the same request ("mikasa isn't erens adopted sister") seven times. Per Anachronist, reliable source reference called for. David notMD (talk) 11:42, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

how am i abusing the talk page for stating facts from original source?one of the sourced of articl is sf encyclopedia i have already posted offcial site of kodansha japan but my source is unreliable,can i converse with someone who understand japanese and can understand my point Sagarahir98 (talk) 13:40, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

AngelsAndOwls

This user has been adding categories indiscriminately for a long time, adding unnecessary categories to the categories.(Special:Diff/1129730778、Special:Diff/1131672435、Special:Diff/1129764643、Special:Diff/1146054992、Special:Diff/1146055177、Special:Diff/1146055286) 寒吉 (talk) 06:51, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, I do not appreciate you coming to my talk page issuing me with ‘warnings’ instead of opening up a discussion on why you feel certain categories should not be linked. If you provide your rationale properly, and in an adult fashion, rather than start an edit war, that would be helpful. I feel that you are just removing categories from pages/categories at random, rather than understanding the rationale of why they were added and the important of that to the scope of the ongoing projects. Please stop issuing ‘warnings’ to fellow Wikipedians, it is sinister and intimidating. AngelsAndOwls (talk) 07:12, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@Crowsus@Denniscabrams. 寒吉 (talk) 07:15, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

AngelsAndOwls, how well do you understand categorization, and how responsive are you to routine criticism of your edits? Issuing warnings is very far from "sinister and intimidating". Where did you cook up this uncollaborative wording? I really want to understand your motivation for this wording. Cullen328 (talk) 07:21, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Genuine question, how often do you start a rational and constructive conversation on something with ‘WARNING’? AngelsAndOwls (talk) 07:24, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

He wouldn't answer the question about categories.XD 寒吉 (talk) 07:32, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

That is a separate discussion I will come back to when we have first established why I find your leaving of ‘warnings’ first rather than opening up constructive dialogue on the talk page intimidation. A look at your archived talk page clearly shows you have a habit of opening up arguments, edit wars, being generally aggressive and turning Wikipedia into a battleground. All I asked for was civil dialogue first. AngelsAndOwls (talk) 07:40, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

You cann't accept a warning is your problem, I have right give you a warning if I want, and it's necessary. I am autopatroller, former new page patroller and former rollbacker in zhwiki, I don't need someone talk to me I cann't give you a warning, or teach me how to add appropriate category, that will be funny. 寒吉 (talk) 07:51, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

And there we have it. All I ask for is you use a little bit of common sense and common courtesy and open up a discussion FIRST on why you are taking an action. Primarily because educating fellow Wikipedians is more constructive for all, and secondly because open dialogue that is civil is generally nicer. But your response is basically ‘i have power, I’ll use my power’ and that’s fair enough. Go use your power. AngelsAndOwls (talk) 07:55, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Special:Diff/1146178882、Special:Diff/1146179100, genius. 寒吉 (talk) 07:31, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Why make such childish insults? Please be constructive and civil. AngelsAndOwls (talk) 07:41, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

It's not insult, it's praise. 寒吉 (talk) 07:53, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

No, it was an insult. And it’s childish. But here we go, for example, why couldn’t you open a talk page dialogue on why you remove Sports clubs established in 1890 but leave the other similar year categories? Constructive dialogue educates others. AngelsAndOwls (talk) 07:58, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@AngelsAndOwls Hi, as in our previous discussion on the subject, these above are examples of overcategorization. Great Britain national baseball team people does not need to be in Baseball in the United Kingdom directly because it is correctly part of Great Britain national baseball team, which is correctly under Baseball in the United Kingdom. No need for Canadian expatriate baseball players in the United Kingdom‎ to be in Baseball in the United Kingdom directly because it (and the American one) are correctly in Expatriate baseball players in the United Kingdom‎ which is also correctly under Baseball in the United Kingdom. I can see you created most of these forks, and they are all valid as far as I can see (BTW is there really only 1 notable Canadian and 1 American who has played in the UK?), apart from then undermining the tree structure by adding its own parents. There is no need to be adding person categories to a team article just because they are on the same subject. As for 寒吉 removing the categories as I had done previously, I appreciate it can be annoying as it appears to be being done unilaterally, but in many cases when checking categories it is unnecessarily tedious to investigate which user added which categories (in some cases, mistakes go unnoticed for months or years due to low view numbers) and contact them about each contribution; as long as one feels they are in the right, I believe it would come under WP:BRD to remove what one feels to be an invalid category, but to bear in mind it may be challenged and reverted. Personally I don't ever do warning messages for anyone but it's fairly standard practice. Crowsus (talk) 07:58, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

As always, i 100% appreciate and understand your thoughtful and constructive feedback. This proves my point entirely, we all get along much better and Wikipedia is a much nicer place for all when we just talk it over in a civil manner. Thank you. AngelsAndOwls (talk) 08:02, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

AngelsAndOwls, we don't add a category to an article if the category doesn't already exist (unless perhaps we intend to create the category in a matter of minutes). That aside, I read: instead of keep undoing the work, raise the topic on the talk pages of those. If you believe that I am unwittingly (or deliberately) damaging a single article, you're welcome to address me either on that article's talk page or on my talk page. If on the other hand you believe that I am damaging a number of articles, and in a similar way (or the same way), then pointing this out on the talk page of each is wasteful, and my talk page is better. Starting a warning with "WARNING" is quite OK in this website. (Norms of communication here aren't what they are elsewhere.) -- Hoary (talk) 08:08, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. In this case the categories did/do exist and the removal of categories was for over categorisation, which would have been helpful to have been explained rather than just immediately throwing out a ‘warning’. As I’ve said, they do have a habit of combative behaviour as per their archived talk page. It’s fine, it’s dealt with, i just would appreciate more constructive and civil ways of operating than shown today. But if that isn’t the ‘norm’ then so be it. AngelsAndOwls (talk) 08:13, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Citing historical newspapers accessed via a subscription to the British Newspaper Archive

Can someone advise how I should correctly cite a historical newspaper accessed via a subscription to the British Newspaper Archive?

I have currently used this citation:

However, this refers non-subscribers to the website's registration page. Any suggestions would be very gratefully received!

WriterGP (talk) 10:55, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Sources don't necessarily have to be free. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 11:39, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@WriterGP What you have is a typical WP:OFFLINE source (the newspaper itself) which you happen to have been able to look at via the archive. The inclusion of the URL is just for the convenience of (some) readers who could access it that way. One suggestion would be to include the page number of the piece, which would assist readers who might be verifying the content in some other way, for example via a library or alternative archive. Another thing you could do is to use the |quote= parameter of {{cite news}} to restate the actual words in the newspaper that back up what you say in the Wikipedia text, assuming the quote wouldn't be too lengthy. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:24, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Within wiki copyrights doubt

Hi, one month ago I created a page: Draft:Chief Ministership of N. Chandrababu Naidu which majorly includes the content from the page N. Chandrababu Naidu after when the page was vandaled by another user (user1) where the user removed content and further didn't respond to our notices for pov discussion. But another user(user2) came into consensus me and started making it neutral but since much of the matter was removed by the first user(user1) I thought to create this new article since this included the governance and chiefministership details during the tenure similar to other chief ministers. But what happened is the article got moved to draft for curation and I started expanding the article further in the draftspace and later informed by other user(user3) that a attribution needs to be given in the edit summary for any inter wiki copying and thus I also gave attribution to the main page that content was lifted from there in-fact the other user also gave the attribution on my behalf and I was educated that attribution is to be given in edit summary. Now my point is another user(user4) today restored the previously removed content by the first said user(user1). So am I supposed to request to delete my draft? since the originality of the main article is now restored by (user4)and will this draft be useless? But point to note is this draft also includes other topics on the governance but mostly aligns to the main page. I am really confused now. 456legend(talk) 11:37, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

can someone help me with this doubt please? 456legend(talk) 14:04, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@456legend: Hello 456! I'm not sure what you are asking here. Could you possibly be a bit more specific with your question? ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 14:34, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Blaze Wolf, my question is since the originality of the main page is restored is my draft noe useless and should I nominate to delete the draft or I am I at fault for creating the draft? 456legend(talk) 14:37, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@Blaze WolfI am not aware about the technicality in wikipedia so I am having this doubt 456legend(talk) 14:39, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@456legend: What exactly do you mean by "the originality of the main page"? ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 14:39, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@Blaze Wolf Originality here I mean the status of the page before the removal of content from the user 1. 456legend(talk) 14:45, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, 456legend, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm not quite sure what you are asking either, but I'll summarize what I think is the information relevant to answering it:

1. Essentially all text in Wikipedia is licensed under WP:CC-BY-SA, which means that it may be freely copied or reused, within Wikipedia or elsewhere, as long as the source is attributed - which can be done in an edit summary or on the talk page. See copying within Wikipedia. # Whether the text was subsequently removed from its original place is irrelevant, unless it was removed because it was itself a copyright violation. In that case, it should never have been in Wikipedia in the first place, and a copy of it is also a copyright violation and must be removed.
2. I'm not sure whether you're also asking about whether it can be proper to include material in an article which has been deleted from another article. The answer is that it certainly can be, but it depends on the circumstances. If the text was removed from the first article because it was uncited, or original research, or not a neutral point of view, then probably not. But if it was removed because it was not thought appropriate in that article, it may be perfectly appropriate in another article.

ColinFine (talk) 17:01, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@ColinFine Thank you, I think this answers my doubt. I can stay rest assured since there was no copyright violation in the content. And I was only confused whether to use the content within Wikipedia or not. And also I provided the attribution in the edit summary already. So thank you for the clarification. 456legend(talk) 19:05, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Updating Information

Greetings. Ref this page- Chris Barfoot

After several years of details being added and changed by interlopers- I decided to change and verify the information on the Chris Barfoot page- because 'I am Chris Barfoot'... I do not claim to be skilled as an 'uploader' or moderator and I don't understand a lot of the processes that have developed here- Some of the information on the page is not incorrect but is too raw- when considering the times we live in regarding fraudulent activity. I rewrote the page but the format has offended some of the moderators. I was more interested in updating the information. I suppose I seek a friendly moderator- to make the appropriate changes to my new biography- or I fear I shall be attempting this change till the end of time. It is not my forte... I am very happy for a brilliant moderator to make appropriate changes. I can verify that the information I have attempted to upload is true and correct. What next please? Thanks all. Chris. ATLANTEAN PROTAGONIST (talk) 11:54, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @ATLANTEAN PROTAGONIST – a few comments:

1. We have no way of knowing who you are, other than your say-so.
2. If indeed you are the person in question, you should not be editing the article yourself, but should instead request edits. Even then, you need to cite reliable published sources to support your requests.
3. You also must formally disclose your conflict of interest (COI). A message has been posted on your user talk page to this effect; please respond to it.

Thank you, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:04, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks DoubleGrazing. Yes... I've been educated to that effect by C.FRED and get it now. Thank you. ATLANTEAN PROTAGONIST (talk) 12:09, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@ATLANTEAN PROTAGONIST It may be surprising, but Wikipedia does not have moderators of its content, only a group of editors who try to create content in line with policy: for biographies, specifically as described at WP:BLP. Thus we create articles about topics, backed up by reliable sources meeting the golden rules. If we have an article about you, then for fairly obvious reasons we don't want you to contribute to it because you are unlikely to have a neutral point of view, one of the core requirements. Rather, we want you to use the Talk Page at Talk:Chris Barfoot to make your suggestions, as indicated by DoubleGrazing. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:11, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Chris Barfoot should probably be deleted, there is zero evidence that you are notable in Wikipedia terms. Theroadislong (talk) 12:12, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

WP:BIOSELF might also be of some use here. Lectonar (talk) 12:13, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi. I was attempting to address to address that very subject and upload details about my career. I can see that this is not the way. If you wish to completely delete the page... please do so. Many thanks. ATLANTEAN PROTAGONIST (talk) 12:17, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

ATLANTEAN PROTAGONIST The article Chris Barfoot has been in existance, in various forms, since 2009. As you claim to be Chris, you should not edit the article directly. However, if you are truly not satisfied with the article as it now exists you may nominate it for deletion via the Articles for deletion process (see WP:AFD). After a week or so of comments by editors, an Administrator will make a decision. Or, just leave it, and hope that people with no paid or personal connection to you will try to improve the article. All the content and references you attempted to add - reverted - are visible via View history, so someone may use that to add content in Wikipedia's format (none of that bolding, no hyperlinks, proper reference format, etc.).

How do you refer to the noughties?

Is it ok to say from the swinging 60s to the naughty 00s? i checked mosdecade but could not find an answer. I am referring to music. Thank you Bijou1995 (talk) 12:13, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Unless you were quoting, Bijou1995, that would be editorializing. How about "from the 60s to the 00s"? -- Hoary (talk) 13:19, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

thank you i will use that Bijou1995 (talk) 13:47, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Just to clarify, is it ok to use abbreviated years as i have been told off for that? I think i remember mosdecade saying its ok if you use the swinging 60's etc, i have put this..... from 1970s, 1980s, 1990s to present, is that acceptable? Bijou1995 (talk) 13:55, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Bijou1995, I suppose that the MoS is necessary; and yes, it is at times obviously beneficial. But I for one don't worry about it so much. There are MoS fanatics. If you write "60s" and somebody insists on "1960s", they can fix it themselves. If they take the trouble to point you to a prescription somewhere in the MoS for "1960s" in preference to "60s", then fair enough, from that point on use "1960s". Meanwhile, if you have a question about MoS, better ask it on an MoS talk page, which will be populated by people who know MoS well (and who, I hasten to add, aren't all fanatics). -- Hoary (talk) 14:03, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

That's excellent, thank you very much, I wasn't aware of MoS talk page. Bijou1995 (talk) 14:12, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Technically in the case you described above, it would be better to simply say "from the 1970s to present" without the need to list all the decades in between since "to" implies it includes the intermediate decades. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 14:31, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you Bijou1995 (talk) 15:00, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps mistakenly, I took "the naughty 00s" to mean the period from 2000 to 2009, or possibly one year later. Even if it's as late as 2010, this is not what I, in 2023, would call the present. -- Hoary (talk) 22:39, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Copyvio

I noticed that in one article, some of the content was just the content from the sources that were translated from Google Translate and copy pasted. If the original text is translated into another language via google translate, is this considered copyvio? Shadow of the Starlit Sky (talk) 12:31, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

The translation is considered a derivative work, and any copyright on the original work applies. If the original source was in copyright, then this would be copyvio, yes. (And even if it were not in copyright, unless it were properly attributed it would violate WP:PLAGIARISM – in particular WP:NONENGPLAG.) Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 12:56, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Information regarding quick review of my new Page.

Hi

I want to create a new page related to Indian politics. The page will feature a liberal political party from India it is the topic I think that is not much available on Wikipedia. So in accordance with wikipedia motto of being a useful encyclopedia I decided to account that information here.

But i have solid information that Wikipedia Indian Politics reviewers are "infamous" for talking their time in reviewing new pages.

Question to sincere creators on wikipedia Indian politics topic:-

1) What is average time taken by reviewers to review your new page?

2) What tricks you can use to make them review faster?

3) And Why there is so much backlog of pages to be reviewed especially in Indian politics section?

42.105.74.199 (talk) 13:54, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

(1) I don't know. (2) Write a short article of perhaps three or four short paragraphs, citing three to five reliable sources, in English, that describe the party in depth. (3) Because most people have more thrilling things to do (e.g. rock-climbing, trail-running, stamp-collecting, watching kitten videos on Youtube) than reviewing drafts, whether these are about Indian politics or anything else. (Why "in English"? Does Wikipedia discriminate against, say, Bengali? No, sources in Bengali, Punjabi, Hindi, etc are welcome. But a problem is that few people here can read them. Few reviewers will want to okay a draft when it's based on sources that they don't understand.) -- Hoary (talk) 14:12, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

The draft review process is not a queue. Reviewers select. Hence, reviews happen in days, weeks, or sadly, months. A few reviewers to keep an eye out for the really old drafts. Per Hoary, most reviewers have English as a first/only language, so there is a bias for articles ref'd in English. David notMD (talk) 14:56, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Welcome IP user, if you create an account that is WP:Autoconfirmed you can directly publish articles on Wikipedia, however they will be WP:PATROLED by someone and expect to be higher standards than if you submit it for draft review. Read WP:FOREIGNSOURCES for guidelines on non English languages sources. Politics in general is tricky to get it right in accordance with Wikipedia policies. As a politically active person and editor, I struggle with this myself sometimes. Happy editing! Also posting in WikiProjects WP:INDIA or WP:POLITICS can be helpful for more eyes. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 16:06, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Citing a title

If citing an article, should I use the title word for word and should it be " quoted" or is this plagiarising? Bijou1995 (talk) 13:58, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

If you cite an article, Bijou1995, you should of course specify its actual title, verbatim. If the title is in a language other than English, it would be helpful if you also provided an English translation of the title. If you use Template:Cite journal or whatever, it will italicize, add quotation marks, etc, as appropriate. But perhaps I have misunderstood your question. -- Hoary (talk) 14:16, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

No you understood it perfectly and I am pleased to say I did it correctly. So no quotations then i presume? As for English translation from another language that's far too advanced for me at the moment, thanks again. Bijou1995 (talk) 14:59, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@Bijou1995, some titles are styled with quotation marks (song titles, for instance - "Over the Rainbow") and some are not (book titles, for instance - The Lord of the Rings). See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Titles of works. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:25, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

You are so helpful, thank you Bijou1995 (talk) 16:56, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

A question

How do people edit their pages with images? Is it html or a custom Wikipedia type of thing. 2603:8080:200:5519:D456:178E:49C0:D9C7 (talk) 14:21, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello IP and welcome to the Teahouse! Technically everything on Wikipedia and the web in general is HTML since that is the basis of the entire web. Technicalities aside though, assuming you mean adding an image to an article, it is usually done by adding [[File:IMAGENAME.ext]] to the article, with IMAGENAME.ext being the name of the image as it appears when you go to the page for the image itself along with the file extension (usually it will be .png or .jpg/jpeg for images). ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 14:29, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi there! The answer to your question depends on whether you're using Wikipedia's source editor or the VisualEditor. I suggest you visit Help:Introduction and click on the appropriate "Images" button. Hope this helps, and happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 15:19, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

How do I appeal an ANI editing restriction

I had a few editing restrictions put on me recently. While I'm fine with the majority of them. One of them I believe was applied without proper justification and is quite deleterious. How can I appeal an individual restriction? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 15:02, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi again @Immanuelle. You should probably have a read of this; in this case, looks like you'd be appealing at WP:AN, whether you're appealing one restriction, some or all of them. I should probably warn you that you need to be very sure of your ground before issuing such a challenge, because it could possibly be seen as further evidence of disruption. Consider your options carefully. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:22, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Writing a page about Global Citizens Community. Its currently nominated for speedy deletion, what to do...

Please advise Philanthropist Evan (talk) 15:23, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Note: the OP has been blocked. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:27, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Question

Is it alright to create articles of variants of vehicles. for example. would i be allowed to create a article about the Sd,kfz 6/2. the AA variant of the Sd.Kfz.6. despite them being basically the same Some Random Dingus (talk) 15:55, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@Some Random Dingus: Welcome to the Teahouse! For the general answer to your question, see the guideline at WP:PRODUCTS. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 15:59, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

How to title a subheading

Currently I am writing on a war in Ancient Greece, and an important event is when the leader of one of the parties tricks the other into believing they can outlast them. I feel like this needs a subheader of its own, but I can't come up with one. The 'working title' is "Thrasybulus' ruse" but this doesn't sound right. Does anyone have suggestions? Does it need a subheading at all? Thanks! Here is the link. It's still a draft, so any other suggestions would be appreciated. I'm quite new to this and am not sure about how I cite correctly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Lydian-Milesian_War

P.S. For those wondering it is about the war between Lydia and Miletus in 600 BCE during the reign of Alyattes mentioned in Herodotus 1.17 - 1.22 GeneralCraft65 (talk) 16:10, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @GeneralCraft65, welcome to the Teahouse. I would recommend looking at articles on similar subjects and seeing how their sections are laid out. I'm sure you're familiar with Battle of Cannae, for instance, though even better would be Battle of the Trebia (a Good Article) or Battle of Lake Trasimene (a Featured Article). You could also ask for advice on the talk page of WikiProject Military History if you're really stuck. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:18, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

How to upload

How to upload on wikipedia Samathon (talk) 17:30, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@Samathon Welcome to the Teahouse. I think you will find it helpful to read Help:Introduction, which has sections on various aspects of editing, including how to upload and use images. Mike Turnbull (talk) 18:20, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Crazy.

My question is why do people give notices or edits so fast? Wouldn’t there be millions of possible page edits in Wikipedia? Or are there just a lot of people that have that rank to give out notices? 2603:8080:200:5519:C826:4041:8416:424F (talk) 18:52, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi IP editor, welcome to the Teahouse. Many folks spend their time watching for disruptive edits of various kinds, fixing the issues and notifying editors of problems with their edits. There is no rank of any sort required; even IP editors can (and do) patrol Wikipedia in this way. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:40, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

For example, I chose to watch about 40 nutrition-related articles. Everytime I log in, I see the last edit to any of those that were changed. David notMD (talk) 21:17, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

And an automated program clears the Everybody Sandbox every hour (but each registered account has its own Sandbox, not auto-cleared). David notMD (talk) 21:55, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Search function

What have you done with the "search" function? I cant find the window to enter my subject. Jnyork (talk) 19:25, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Jnyork, welcome to the Teahouse. There is a new default skin in which the search box has been moved to the center-left of the top of the screen; at some browser widths, all you may see is a magnifying glass icon. You can switch back to the old skin in your account preferences if you wish. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:33, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Which, apparently, is almost exactly the same answer I gave to the same question and questioner exactly a month ago. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:03, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

CommonsDeLinker keeps deleting my Files and Media for an Article

article in question is about Francisco lugo viña molina, a Spanish nobleman. He has a painting.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Francisco_Lugo-Vi%C3%B1a_Molina

You can look the article for yourself and edit if you want to. But is there a Way to stop CommonsDeLinker? Ive tried Three Times. I just uploaded the image to WikiData but it always gets deleted. Any help would be great! Ayyyple2 (talk) 19:32, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Ayyyple2, User:CommonsDelinker's edit summary says: Removing Franciscolugoviña.jpg; it has been deleted from Commons by Fitindia because: Media uploaded without a license as of 2023-03. Please upload your media with a license. That can be found on commons:COM:Licensing Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 19:37, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

I dont know what License the Painting has, i do not own it. Its in a museum but i have no idea... Ayyyple2 (talk) 19:39, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@Ayyyple2, you need to determine the copyright status of any image you upload before uploading it. If you need help, there is a place to ask over on Commons (which is where most images are hosted): here. There's also WP:MCQ on English Wikipedia. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:44, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Would you please delete a comment pointing out an error of format?

Hello Actually speaking, I have written "achievement part" in Thomas Maurice Rice - Wikipedia". There was a comment on writing format in the head part. "This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. The specific problem is: § Achievement on the mechanism of superconductivity is poorly formatted and has improper citation styling. (February 2023)".

So, according to the comment, I cleaned up the part. Now, because the comment is useless, I would like to delete the comment given for me. Would you please delete the comment?

Best regards

Hyun

128.239.187.80 (talk) 20:30, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

If you think you have resolved maintenance tags, you can remove them yourself. You can read the instructions given under "Learn how and when to remove these template messages".

And while your contributions have been very helpful to the article, the section still is poorly formatted. I will edit the template to reflect the fact that you resolved repeated citations. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 20:42, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Upon further inspection, the references are still poorly formatted (see Template:Cite web), so I will not change the template message. Your edits have helped significantly though, making it easier for other editors to resolve the issue. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 20:44, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Issues with citations

In my Draft:Softly Dies a Lake I am persistently getting {{cite journal}}: line feed character in |journal= at position 54 (help). Cannot understand what it means. Cannot fix it either. Please help! 137pallavisingh (talk) 20:51, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

There was a line return between the words LITERATURE and AND. I fixed it. David notMD (talk) 21:20, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much! 137pallavisingh (talk) 21:22, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Check all your refs. For example, the doi for ref #5 does not go to the journal article. Others have problems. David notMD (talk) 21:23, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

should I remove the doi? 137pallavisingh (talk) 21:24, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Can you please tell me the problems? 137pallavisingh (talk) 21:25, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

6 & 7 don't connect. David notMD (talk) 21:47, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Voice recordings

I wanted to know what is Wikipedias policy and rules about uploading voice recordings, speeches etc. I’m interested in uploaded voice recordings of historical people to add them to various articles but am not sure how or what is allowed and isn’t. I look forward to hearing from someone, thanks. ✠ Robertus Pius ✠ (Talk • Contribs) 20:58, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Robertus Pius. Please read Help:Creation and usage of media files. Cullen328 (talk) 21:05, 23 March 2023 (UTC)