Template talk:Portal

Use of "Johnny-automatic-scales-of-justice.svg"

Is it a deliberate satire? ("Portal of Prejudice", via the slanted scales) - MasterQuestionable (talk) 15:58, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

To editor MasterQuestionable: could be. That image was uploaded in early 2016 and then applied to the portal template with this edit. The user who changed it from File:Scale of justice 2 new.jpeg, editor CFCF, is no longer very active on Wikipedia. He probably just wanted to change from a .jpeg image to a .svg. You could be right though. - P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 14:30, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

@MasterQuestionable and Paine Ellsworth: The current icon is borderline offensive (IMO). How about this?

—hike395 (talk) 13:08, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Best by far imho is File:Scale of justice 2 new.jpeg Problem is, it's a .jpeg and probably needs to be converted to a valid .svg file. Seems to be the trend on Commons, anyway. - P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 13:24, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth: I could convert it to a gif, which makes low-byte-count icons, no problem. I just don't think it looks very good, see new icon above. The lines are too thin, and the scales are too close to the base.

Later: I found an SVG icon that was similar to File:Scale of justice 2 new.jpeg, but with thicker lines and more whitespace. Here's a comparison of the three proposals: Lady Justice, jpeg scales, svg scales:

	(Lady Justice)
	(Ellsworth suggested scales)
	(newly found SVG scales)

Later: I updated the live portal template to use the SVG scales. We can easily change if there is disagreement. —hike395 (talk) 02:12, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

	Hope you wouldn't mind this somewhat off-topic discussion:

	[ Quote Paine Ellsworth @ CE 2022-07-16 13:24 UTC:
https://en.wikipedia.org/?diffonly=1&diff=prev&oldid=1098571121
	Seems to be the trend on Commons, anyway. ]
<^>	The trend is?..

	----

	To Hike395, would you mind me merging (and slightly reformat) your consecutive posts in the section? For better readability.

- MasterQuestionable (talk) 22:05, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

I guess it depends on what you'd like to do: I found your latest (22:05 8 August) a bit confusing and hard to read. How about you go ahead and munge my comments, and if I find the formatting unreadable, I will revert. —hike395 (talk) 23:04, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

	[ Quote Hike395 @ CE 2022-08-08 23:04 UTC:
https://en.wikipedia.org/?diffonly=1&diff=prev&oldid=1103233072
	go ahead, but I may revert ]
<^>	Of course, feel free to do it.

	[ Quote Hike395 @ CE 2022-08-08 23:04 UTC:
https://en.wikipedia.org/?diffonly=1&diff=prev&oldid=1103233072
	I found your latest (22:05 8 August) a bit confusing and hard to read. ]
<^>	I'm looking for linguistic reviews on the formatting.
	If you have the interest, please leave further details on my talk page. Thanks.

- MasterQuestionable (talk) 01:46, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

To editor MasterQuestionable: the trend on Commons is to convert files to the .svg format when possible. That has several benefits over other formats like .jpg/.jpeg, .gif or .png. - P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 07:38, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

FWIW, I think the superiority of SVG over GIF is highly overstated on WP. With the current software, SVG files get thumbnailed as PNG, so they produce larger downloads, even if the original SVG is much smaller than PNG or GIF. —hike395 (talk) 08:42, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Preparing for the future, supposedly. - MasterQuestionable (talk) 01:46, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Probably somewhat off-topic, but it appears that it has been a long tradition of using slanted scales for such purposes... [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:User_NPOV?oldid=873750989 ] - MasterQuestionable (talk) 13:44, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 16 July 2022

Hi, File:CharlestonWVseal.gif was deleted from commons 09:29, 5 July 2022 - suggest changing to File:Flag of Charleston, West Virginia.svg . Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 12:26, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done — hike395 (talk) 12:48, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 5 September 2022

Rename:

• Flag of Chattanooga.svg → Flag of Chattanooga, Tennessee.svg Rkt2312 (talk) 18:33, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

 Done — hike395 (talk) 19:31, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Discussion of where to place Template:Portal bar

A discussion of where to place {{Portal bar}} in articles is now open at WT:MOSLAYOUT. Please feel free to join the discussion! — hike395 (talk) 19:41, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request

Could we update the chess icon from Nuvola apps package games strategy.png to Chess.svg ? Pretty much every other chess templates uses the svg version. Mason (talk) 23:40, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

What's with that weird black band across the bottom of the chess pieces in File:Chess.svg? — hike395 (talk) 23:48, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done I fixed the SVG, and now Chess portal uses it. — hike395 (talk) 13:08, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Edit request 19 November 2022

Request: icons be added to Portal:Music and Portal:Rock music

Diff: [1]

DaydreamBelizer (talk) 22:35, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

This request affects Module:Portal/images/m and Module:Portal/images/r (their talk pages redirect here). Requested images are File:Gclef.svg for Portal:Music and File:Guitar_1.svg Portal:Rock Music. Certes (talk) 22:52, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

My thanks to Certes for their assistance. I did not notice before that File:Gclef.svg has a transparent background, so a similar image with a white bg (such as File:Gclef.png) would be preferable. DaydreamBelizer (talk) 02:31, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

 Done Transparent background is acceptable for portal links, so kept the svg link. — hike395 (talk) 04:22, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 22 November 2022

Rename:

• Flag of Sao Tome and Principe.svg → Flag of São Tomé and Príncipe.svg Rkt2312 (talk) 15:03, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

 Done Terasail^[✉️] 18:14, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 10 December 2022

File:Riyadh City Logo.svg was deleted from commons 5 December 2022. The file does not appear to have any uses here and there is no Portal:Riyadh any-more so the image reference can just be removed. Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 14:58, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

 Done — hike395 (talk) 16:21, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Plainlist things

I'm doing cleanup of plainlist and I see that {{portal icon demonstration}} is using the class (reasonably for its purpose). However, I also see it has code-rotted relative to the expected display (see its display in Timeless versus how {{portal}} displays particularly).

Does it make sense to support something like this as a custom module-only function supported in Module:Portal? Izno (talk) 19:37, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for finding this. Yes, this makes sense to port to Module:Portal — hike395 (talk) 07:50, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

 Done — hike395 (talk) 03:26, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

This code path should probably display an error when used in mainspace. Something the old template should do/have done. this search is thankfully clear. Izno (talk) 22:04, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

 Done Good idea. — hike395 (talk) 11:41, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Odd layout in mobile

@Izno: Do you understand why Portal boxes are full-width in MinervaNeue/mobile and not in Vector/desktop? See, e.g., [2] vs [3]. Did we break something by calling Module:List ? hike395 (talk) 03:45, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

@Izno: Apologies for the ping -- I figured it out, the tright class doesn't appear to exist in mobile. I'll fix up the background color. — hike395 (talk) 04:09, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that would be the reason. Portal's styles need an adjustment to be a little small-resolution friendlier, but the use of the thumb classes today is useful for that reason. Izno (talk) 04:22, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Inspired by your edits, I converted {{Portal bar}} to use flexbox about a year ago. We may need to flex-ify {{Portal}} also. — hike395 (talk) 04:41, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

To make the mobile box not be abnormally stretched, I updated Module:Portal/sandbox to use custom classes. I eliminated one layer of div which was causing the stretch. See Template:Portal/testcases (click on "mobile" to see the effects). What do other editors think? — hike395 (talk) 13:00, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Some change or another seems to have made the #All parameters section have some different styles, I suspect your moving the color to the top level box. I do not know if that change was bad or if it should always have a background even when there is no border. Or what...

No particular other issues for the moment.

Regarding flex, we should consider the uber-small resolution pages, which may not be able to fit 175px (I doubt such a screen exists, but it's worth at least thinking about). And even for screens slightly larger, say 320px (which I think even Firefox console can emulate something that size in its default settings), now we're squishing what is likely to be text to the left into 145px. It's why Module:Side box has the styles it has. Now, we don't have to be so extreme necessarily just to account for that case, but squished text is :( and so the 100% width is generally a safer bet. (One might even entertain using that module instead.) Izno (talk) 22:03, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

@Izno: I followed your example at Module:Side box/styles.css, and made the class adaptive in the sandbox: if the width is <= 720px, then left/right disappears and the box doesn't float any more. This should prevent squashed text. — hike395 (talk) 20:37, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

See Template:Portal/testcases#Adaptive for a new test case that works with all skins. — hike395 (talk) 01:47, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

 Done Took the @media edits that Izno made, pushed it to the live CSS. — hike395 (talk) 03:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Hmm, not really sure why you removed the use of the list here after looking at the numbers for transclusions of Template:Plainlist/styles.css going down and I couldn't figure out why. It was correct to use it, and any questions of CSS should have been dealt with in the context of CSS rather than removal. Izno (talk) 17:46, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought you realized what the change was from the custom classes replacing the ul, li, and span in the CSS. I had to remove the ul in order to not have the outer div grow to the entire width of the page (when screen width < 720px). That means there was no obvious place to use an output from Module:List.

Right now, the classes are very simple --- there's a table class, a table-row class, and two table-cell classes. Maybe you can force it to use Module:List by having an outer table (with max-width: 175px) with exactly one cell, and that cell can host a list (which is also display:table). I'm not sure what we gain from that extra complexity? It's not clear (to me at least) whether a user's custom CSS for a plainlist will look good in a portal box displaying as a table. It could very well be a surprise --- a user might not think that their custom CSS would apply to the contents of a portal box.

I'm open to trying to figure it out, please help me understand what you think we should do here. — hike395 (talk) 00:12, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

It's not about a user's custom CSS but instead correctly marking the list of portals up as a list and incidentally needing plainlist to do so without bullets (you can solve this problem without plainlist, it just uses all the same CSS so might as well use the plainlist CSS instead). CSS problems can be solved. I suspect the issue was that the display: table on the <ul> was not set to width: 100% and/or max-width: 100%; table display things do weird things like indeed growing out of their container when they're 'too large' (and shrinking when the size necessary for the table is smaller than its container, a property that is usually useful but in this case is likely what has caused the display grief on Timeless, come to think of it). This is one reason <table>s are bad for presentation. :) Izno (talk) 16:58, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

It sounds like you want the HTML to indicate that the portals inside the box is semantically a list. Is it enough to use a ul and set of li ? Or does it have to be a "plainlist" class? Or both? — hike395 (talk) 20:17, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

semantically a list Correct. Is it enough to use a ul and set of li ? Or does it have to be a "plainlist" class? Or both? The reason we use plainlist is to remove the bullets. You can do the same things as plainlist and put it in Portal/styles.css but that just adds CSS that's already common... in and to Plainlist/styles.css. Which just adds to page load. Izno (talk) 20:44, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

• Aaaaaaaaaaa
• Bbbbbbbbbbbb
• Ccccccccccc

Here's a little mockup that I made that uses Module:List and seems to work well. The box you see on the right is float right. And the version below is with no floating. It looks like it all works in mobile.

• Aaaaaaaaaaa
• Bbbbbbbbbbbb
• Ccccccccccc

The remaining issue is that I have to use |list_style= and |item_style= to make this work, which would require hardwiring the styles into the Lua. @Izno: would it be ok with you if I added |list_class= and |item_class= to Module:List, so that we can keep nice CSS classes that people can edit without Lua? — hike395 (talk) 20:48, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Are you just trying to spare yourself an extra div? I don't really understand what wasn't working that made you remove the list in the first place that can't be resolved by my suggestion above to set the width to 100%. Try reverting to that version in the sandbox and adding that width. Or I can mess with it if you want. :)

In your mockups, there's no reason to add those parameters, your CSS can be (using already-provided |class=): .portalbox, .portalbox ul, .portalbox li, .portalbox-image, .portalbox-text. Izno (talk) 20:56, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, I guess I didn't understand your width: 100% suggestions, above. Would you mind reverting the sandbox and showing me what you meant? — hike395 (talk) 21:04, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Ok, I figured out why you were having trouble. You were relying on the behavior that divs will display when they are set to float, which is to collapse similar to how tables always are as small as they can be. When one adds the middle div, that div isn't floating, and when you remove the float at small widths, the outer div stops collapsing because the inner div is happy at 100% rather than the outer div's 175px.

Let me poke at it a bit more. The easiest way is just to set the .plainlist div to have the same max width, but I'm wondering if I can make it a bit cleaner than that. Izno (talk) 22:21, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Would it work to do something like the mockups, above? I think we can make it work with |class=, per your suggestion. — hike395 (talk) 23:22, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

@Hike395, sure. I synced it to an older version, so you might want to sync it back to the current. The other thing I'm thinking about is that there are some thing that the module doesn't do, like roles etc, and I don't think it makes sense to add support over there for that. Izno (talk) 00:33, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Oh, now I see what you mean about roles. Well, if you don't want to change Module:List to accept attr, I can simply change the divs to ul and li here and then we get the semantics that you want (even if we don't use Module:List or class=plainlist), with the cost of a redundant "list-style: none"

Well, I am stymied. I don't understand CSS multiple class inheritance. Maybe Izno will have better luck. I've restored the sandbox back to the live state. — hike395 (talk) 01:59, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Success! I took the live version, converted the divs to ul and li, set list-style:none and margin:0.5em 0em ... and it worked! It doesn't use Module:List, but it does have the correct attributes and the correct ul/li semantics. @Izno: what do you think? — hike395 (talk) 02:59, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

It's a technical change to the HTML without any user-facing change (although it will likely improve the output of screen readers). I'll go ahead and make it live. — hike395 (talk) 00:08, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Purge images from deleted portals?

Have a look at Template:Portal/doc/all. The vast majority of the images here are for non-existent portals. Would there be any objections if I did a mass purge of these? --Trialpears (talk) 03:39, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Support removal: it would make the Portal module more efficient, with no loss of functionality. — hike395 (talk) 05:41, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Support but please beware that some redlinks correspond to actual portals, e.g. South africa portal refers to Portal:South Africa. In theory, the best way to do this might be a Lua change to have _displayAll check for portal names in various captialisations, but that would require more than 500 expensive function calls. Could we be more radical and fix the case once in Module:Portal/images/a etc., then have the module lowercase the text if necessary? As an aside, so few portals survived the 2019 cull that we might be able to consolidate them into one module rather than about 26. Certes (talk) 11:12, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Whoops, Certes is correct -- we need to clean up Template:Portal/doc/all to show the correct set of portals, otherwise we will be removing images from existing portals. @Trialpears: Can you hold off for a while while we figure out how to clean this up? — hike395 (talk) 12:23, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Suggestion --- there may be an easier way to do a one-time cleanup without changing code in Module:Portal. Someone (Trialpears?) could download Wikiget, generate a list of all non-redirect pages in the Portal namespace, then write a little bit of code that filters the lines in all of the Module:Portal/images files, keeping only those that case-insensitively match something in the list.

I'm very busy IRL, so I wouldn't be able to get to this for a while. But it should be relatively easy to do. As an extra bonus, if we did want to fix TEmplate:Portal/doc/all, we could use this cleanup to put case-sensitive portal names into Module:Portal/images. But the cut-over to that could cause user-visible disruption. — hike395 (talk) 13:12, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

My plan was to use some regex and {{#ifexist:}} parser functions to remove all the bad rows. It's more complicated though in light of Moxy's comment. --Trialpears (talk) 16:18, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Opposed Would this blank other templates usage??? If i am correct these images are used for more then just portals like Template:WPbox and Template:WPBannerMeta and Template:WikiProject task force box and Template:Regional notice board box.Moxy- 14:55, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Based on this and this search it's used through portal related templates it's only used on a limited amount of portal templates, {{yytab}}, {{yyp}}, {{yywp}}, {{yynb}}, {{User WP/switch}}, {{Regional notice board box/1}}, {{WPbox/1}}, {{WPBannerMeta/templatepage}}, {{WikiProject work group box}}, {{WikiProject task force box}}. That's quite a few templates and straight up removal of all deleted portals isn't an option. I'll have a think about how to handle this. I think I may have some clever ideas to check that it's unused as well, but if that doesn't work I won't do it. --Trialpears (talk) 16:15, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

I've implemented a tracking category in the sandbox. It's a bit unconventional to not break the image, but it works as can be seen at User:Trialpears/sandbox/1. I plan to implement the category when I have time to monitor it properly. --Trialpears (talk) 12:58, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Support removal. This is a complete joke that most of this template is deleted portals. Gonnym (talk) 16:28, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

I've made a quick and nasty hack of a report at User:Certes/Reports/Portals. It only shows the first 500 portals. Certes (talk) 18:40, 3 March 2023 (UTC)