User talk:Fram

Added source to Microsoft Musical Instruments

I added a source to Microsoft Musical Instruments and deleted the deletion template. Sk8erkid182 (talk) 16:56, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of my article

Hello. Not sure if you had noticed, the article that you had nominated for speedy deletion has a infobox informing that it's beeing worked at. Thereof, instead of removing it, it would be nice to let it become developed thru time Mcgiwer (talk) 15:55, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

I have seen way too often that that infobox is only used as a way to avoid new page patrolling and get it past most scrutiny. I checked online if the topic was notable, which it isn't (e.g. nothing in Google news, very little in Google in general). Feel free to provide a few reliable, independent sources about the website if I'm wrong. Fram (talk) 15:58, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

It's a bit late as I've deleted it. Mcgiwer, if you wish to "develop" an article over time, then use draft space, not article space.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:59, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Request to delete page.

Hi sir Can you delete the one which moved to draft of Maldives national under-20 football team. Its was my unknown mistake. I was out of network then I have submitted some statistics the first article then I seen their is two article of now. I will add now 2nd article some statis. Thanks God bless you. MD Hydrogen 123 (talk) 10:04, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi

Why did you removed second page. In Wikipedia many articles which remains with short information. I am very shock about it. Thanks.

If there is very little to sy about a subject, but it can be included as a subtopic in a larger article, then it is often better to combine articles. The U20 team hardly played, and is not really notable, and it is rather useless to have long tables for championships where they didn't ever compete: but including this information in the main article explains why we don't have a separate article (not enough info) but still can show the little bit we have. Fram (talk) 10:51, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Please remove the redirect tag I will re create it about it six months back. MD Hydrogen 123 (talk) 12:18, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

I don't understand what you're saying here. Fram (talk) 13:07, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

I want to the page get back a reviewer was review the page now. So please remove redirect tag. MD Hydrogen 123 (talk) 13:16, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

@MD Hydrogen 123,

As mentioned on my talk page, I simply evaluated whether it was a valid redirect, not whether the page should be a redirect or not. Me having marked the page as patrolled (at the time of my viewing) has no impact on whether the page should be a redirect or not. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:24, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Can you tell me can I get the original page back. I am new I don't understanding much about it. Thanks boss. MD Hydrogen 123 (talk) 13:26, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Can you tell me why you think this team, which played a few games in 2018 and none before or after, should get a full page with empty tables instead of just one paragraph in the larger article? What is the issue with the current situation? Fram (talk) 13:28, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

I will update much more Fram let me get back it. I didn't got time before I edit you removed it? MD Hydrogen 123 (talk) 13:32, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

You can work in Draft:Maldives women's national under-20 football team for as long as you need, then you can show me what you actually think you can achieve with it. Fram (talk) 13:36, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1540s disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1540s disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:08, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1560s disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1560s disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:10, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1570s disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1570s disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:10, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1700s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1700s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:14, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1710s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1710s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:14, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Fram,

Many editors who create a lot of categories have asked me NOT to notify them when categories they have created become empty. If you would like me to omit these CSD C1 messages just let me know and you'll stop receiving them. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:34, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

You didn't reply to my query so I'll keep posting messages to your talk page about empty categories you have created in the past. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:59, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Alexander Bagrationi

Hi Fram -- Deprodded this; I thought chess grandmasters were deemed notable. It seems to have been marked as patrolled, despite a complete lack of categories -- I never know how to check who did this? Did you patrol it, or did I do it accidentally somehow? Cheers, Espresso Addict (talk) 00:28, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1090s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1090s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:59, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1530s disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1530s disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:07, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1535 disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1535 disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:09, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1540 disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1540 disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:13, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1545 disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1545 disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:14, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1564 disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1564 disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:15, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1579 disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1579 disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:20, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1580s disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1580s disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:22, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:16th-century disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:16th-century disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:30, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1720s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1720s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:33, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1790s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1790s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:40, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

List of people on the postage stamps of X

I'm joining the club on prodding or AFDing all these "List of people on the postage stamps of X". Where the hell did all these lists come from? They're right up there with all the obscure two-episode reality shows I'm finding that got no RS coverage. Props to you for finding another treasure trove of cruft to clean up. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 17:13, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia is stuffed with such walled gardens with one or two editors wanting to keep them (and in this case simultaneously not interested in developing them somehow). Fram (talk) 08:55, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

And of course this isn't limited to articles, you also get weird inclusions of trivia because one or two people take an interest, like the descriptions of the last meals of death row inmates[1]. Why anyone would think this is essential or appropriate in a biography of a criminal is not clear, but there you go... Fram (talk) 13:14, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

We had 6 entries for countries starting with a T, including rather major ones like Thailand and Turkey. One was already at AfD, and none of the other 5 was worth keeping arund any longer, so all have been Prod'ded. One of the worst groups of lists I have found so far. Fram (talk) 09:40, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

If you look at the history of Lists of people on postage stamps, you can see that it was created in 2002 by User:Eclecticology, who sadly passed away in 2016; I first saw the list in 2003, liked the idea, and expanded on it, along with a number of others, as is evident from the history. One thing you don't see anywhere in the early discussion is notability; in that time period editors were encouraged to try all kinds of experiments to grow Wikipedia, and the value of listing notable people appearing on stamps seemed so obvious it never even came up as an issue. So now with the passage of time, it looks more like a failed experiment, and that's OK. I see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people on stamps of Hungary from 2011 was almost all keeps; curious as to how a second attempt would go, many of the participants from back then are now gone. Stan (talk) 01:23, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1190s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1190s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:58, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1340s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1340s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:58, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1390s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1390s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:59, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1400s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1400s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:00, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1430s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1430s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:00, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Quick note

Hi Fram, I think you pasted the wrong link (a Google Books URL) in your latest edit to ANI. DanCherek (talk) 12:37, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Just checking if anyone reads my posts... Thanks, a leftover link from my previous post, now corrected! Fram (talk) 12:40, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Ah the amount of times I've pasted the wrong thing because I forgot what was in my clipboard. Canterbury Tail talk 12:47, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

As long as it's nothing embarassing ;-) Fram (talk) 12:55, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

List of years in Liechtenstein

Hello Fram, did you just recently delete the article titled List of years in Liechtenstein? There is practically an article for every country in the world titled List of years in [country], and this was the one I just created for Liechtenstein, the last European nation without one. Was something wrong with the article? A tag with the article says it is "unsourced," so I could potentially add a citation saying Liechtenstein was founded in the year 1866? This is the fourth list of years article I have created for a country, as this is just my area of interest on Wikipedia. What do I need to do for this article? Thanks!--Johnson524 (talk) 19:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

I would like to mention as well that these articles are more of a template than anything. You can go to other long running list of year articles such as List of years in France, which has been active since 2013 with no citations. That is kind of just the layout of these kind of articles.--Johnson524 (talk) 19:29, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Sorry Fram, at the time I wrote this I thought the article was already deleted and that you deleted it because of the unsourced tag or something. This is no longer, and was never really, relevant at all 😅 -- Johnson524 (talk) 12:34, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

No problem. I don't agree with the list, but I have no issue with your message! Fram (talk) 12:37, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

New Page Patrol newsletter May 2022

New Page Review queue March 2022

Hello Fram,

At the time of the last newsletter (No.26, September 2021), the backlog was 'only' just over 6,000 articles. In the past six months, the backlog has reached nearly 16,000, a staggering level not seen in several years. A very small number of users had been doing the vast majority of the reviews. Due to "burn-out", we have recently lost most of this effort. Furthermore, several reviewers have been stripped of the user right for abuse of privilege and the articles they patrolled were put back in the queue.

Several discussions on the state of the process have taken place on the talk page, but there has been no action to make any changes. The project also lacks coordination since the "position" is vacant.

In the last 30 days, only 100 reviewers have made more than 8 patrols and only 50 have averaged one review a day. There are currently 732 New Page Reviewers, but about a third have not had any activity in the past month. All 1034 administrators have this permission, but only about a dozen significantly contribute to NPP.

This means we have an active pool of about 450 to address the backlog. We cannot rely on a few to do most of the work as that inevitably leads to burnout. A fairly experienced reviewer can usually do a review in a few minutes. If every active reviewer would patrol just one article per day, the backlog would very quickly disappear.

If you have noticed a user with a good understanding of Wikipedia notability and deletion, do suggest they help the effort by placing {{subst:NPR invite}} on their talk page.

If you are no longer very active on Wikipedia or you no longer wish to be part of the New Page Reviewer user group, please consider asking any admin to remove you from the list. This will enable NPP to have a better overview of its performance and what improvements need to be made to the process and its software.

To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.
Sent 05:17, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people on the postage stamps of Burundi

Is two a new record for the fewest amount of people on one of these "List of people on the postage stamps of X" lists? Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 04:52, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Nope, had one empty list, one with only one (wrong) entry, and one or two others with two. Amazing, isn't it, how these have been created over many years, by different editors (including one current admin), and nearly all have the same issues? Fram (talk) 07:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Which one was the empty one? Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 00:11, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Don't remember, I think one for the Portuguese Colonies. Fram (talk) 07:02, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Youth Olympics

In light of our prior 2018 discussion re: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Naomi Duncan, along with the also nominated Amy Lawton and Courtney Schonell, please see the following articles in the NPP queue and share your thoughts:

1. Hungary women's national under-19 volleyball team,
2. Hungary women's national under-21 volleyball team,
3. France women's national under-19 volleyball team,
4. France women's national under-21 volleyball team,
5. Romania women's national under-21 volleyball team, and no telling how many more that are similar. Are we still deleting underage athletes?

Please ping me when you've had a chance to review & comment re: the above. Atsme 💬 📧 16:54, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Why, after spending frustrating hours trying to explain to you the most basic aspects of sport, would I want to spend any time on giving my thoughts to you unrelated articles about teams (not individuals) in the NPP queue? The worrying thing to me is that you are doing NPP, not these articles. I just checked some other previous interactions, and your completely misguided edit warring at Wikipedia:Notability (sports) yesterday, on a topic you don't know enough about. Fram (talk) 07:59, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

First of all, I was not edit warring which demonstrates how much you know. Secondly, my knowledge about equestrian sports places me at expert level, and I disagree with quite a few of the other positions you've taken. I came here in GF but I see now, it was wasted time. Your condescension is noted, and speaks volumes to your judgement, not mine. Atsme 💬 📧 12:43, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Your edit, reverted, your reinsertion. How is this not edit warring? I note your opinion of your own expertise, and I see that your proposal (the one you edit warred over) gets near universal opposition. So I'm quite confident in my judgment here, considering that you apparently don't know the difference between individual athletes and teams (question above, earlier discussions), and neither do you know the difference between athletes and competitions. Like you say, wasted time. Fram (talk) 12:57, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Lovely to see how in that talk page discussion, you seem to believe that everyone, every single one, is confused about what they are voting about, and are opposing JoelleJays change (which you don't seem to understand either) instead of your proposal; when it is equally obvious for anyone else that people have read your proposal (and seen your changes at the notability page), and are clearly opposing your proposal. I don't know what your issue is, but it shows that it isn't just me who has serious troubles communicating with you. Fram (talk) 13:02, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

I have no issues with communication, Fram, so let's don't go down that road. What needs scrutiny is your conduct when interacting with other editors, especially female editors; it hasn't been ideal. I came here in GF because I truly wanted your input and in return, with no provocation on my part, you've been condescending, unfairly critical, and have misrepresented my recent edits based on your own misinterpretations, poor judgment and obvious lack of knowledge about equestrian notability and equine sports in general. I take full responsibility for forgetting about your treatment of me & others in the past, but it won't happen again. It's also quite sad that I now have to explain edits that have nothing to do with my initial reason for coming here. Your misguided perception that my 2 edits were edit warring begs a response, so here it is:

1. This edit simply added a few other highly notable equestrian sports. The original text and its meaning remained in tact with 2 very minor grammar changes. The Olympics, jumping and eventing do not represent the entire world of equestrian sports, and in fact, are a minuscule part of it.
2. My edit was reverted, and the edit summary stated to first discuss on the TP. I did not revert that edit or edit war;
3. I went directly to the TP to discuss.
4. The editor who reverted my initial edit then made 2 completely separate bold edits here, and here without getting consensus first. This happened right after they criticized me and reverted my edits for not getting consensus first.
5. I reverted those 2 bold edits stating The same applies to you.
6. The editor then created this proposal, which I commented on here. How or why my initial edit and later revert of different material was subsequently misinterpreted, or conflated and/or blown out of proportion is beyond me.
7. I even attempted to add more clarity, but to no avail.

The whole process and the results are a mess, and best explained in this article about the "downsides of volunteerism and how volunteers can contribute to stifling innovation", particularly the 32nd para which begins It's more serious when you realize this is the basic dynamic for Wikipedia decision making and control. No editor warrants the kind of treatment you demonstrated toward me in this discussion. You can rest assured that I will never seek your input again, so let's make it a voluntary two-way IBAN. I'm done here. Atsme 💬 📧 17:24, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Ah, when you're called out for your many editing problems, if course it has to be because of your gender. Pathetic. Everyone can see that in your revert, you reinstated your own additions, you didn't simply remove the two later edits by Joellejay. If you can't even recognise or admit such blatant facts, then why should I treat you differently than how I have done here? It has nothing to do with your gender, and hiding behind it is an insult to the many very good female editors we have. And no, I will not let you decide that I should have an interaction ban either: if I happen to come across problematic edits by you, I will deal with them just like I would do with other editors. Fram (talk) 17:51, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Oh, ok, noted - no voluntary 2-way IBAN. I didn't even notice my revert grabbed those prior edits - I didn't scroll far enough down the page to notice it until you just now mentioned it. Either way, it wasn't intentional, it wasn't edit warring, and it was reverted anyway. Adios! Atsme 💬 📧 21:48, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Biography of living persons

I received a warning about living persons, controversial biography, in article "ringette" but there is no information where this occurred within the article. If I was the editor, I could remove it, but I don't know where to find it. CheckersBoard (talk) 13:58, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

I have removed it before issuing the warning. It was in the controversy section, your claims about the transgeder player. Fram (talk) 14:17, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Jibolu-Taiwo family

Hello, Fram.

I just wanted to reach out and make a clarification about some editing that you did a few hours ago. You deleted references to Funmilayo Ransome-Kuti and Fela Kuti from the Wikipedia page I just made. Your rationale seems to be that there is no proof that they belong to the family in question. You will find, however, that the Johnson-Odim book that I cited referred to Chief Ransome-Kuti being Sarah Taiwo's great-granddaughter. Mr. Kuti, meanwhile, would therefore also be a descendant as the chief's son.

I will try to get some decent sources to shore up the page's notability, but if it's alright with you, I'll restore the references to the Kutis.

Here's hoping that you're well.

O.ominirabluejack (talk) 16:44, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

So the great-great-grandmother of Fela Kuti was a Taiwo? Perhaps a bit of a stretch then to include him in the gallery, he is merely a distant relative woth a short mention but nothing more it seems. Fram (talk) 07:38, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Okay... I'll do as you say regarding Fela, although I don't feel that you understand how families work here. Distant relatives are regarded as part of the family in a very real sense amongst the Yoruba... They even sometimes lead it, if you can believe it.

O.ominirabluejack (talk) 07:51, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

But then what's the difference with the Ransome-Kuti family? I have no issue with the Jibolu one indicating that the Ransome-Kuti family is one offspring, one branch of it, but at some point the difference needs to be made clear. Fram (talk) 07:55, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

The Ransome-Kutis are the family that Chief Ransome-Kuti married into. Her family at birth were the Jibolu-Taiwos. They are two distinct yet related clans, much like how the House of Windsor and the Spencer family of Britain are distinct but related as well. We Yorubas are extensively ambilineal, so all of the chief's descendants are therefore members of both families simultaneously.

O.ominirabluejack (talk) 16:28, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	Hello Fram, I'm just dropping by to thank you, not only for your contributions, but also for moving an article to the draft, because you prevented it from being deleted, thanks for giving me a second chance to improve it. Greetings and good contributions! :) Ryenaldo Ziur (talk) 17:03, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

DYK issues

Sorry about my behavior before. I do know that there are issues with DYK, but I was having a terrible morning and I didn't use Google or that search term when I promoted the cavefish hook. Neither reason is a good excuse for the long argument though and I shouldn't have taken it personally. I admit that the long conversation to find a new hook at ERRORS and no one apparently checking for copyright violations at Frank H. Wadsworth is very grating and makes my head hurt. I recently filed a CCI report for a DYK contributor with years of copyright violations (still pending with no response since May 25) including in a few ITN promotions. Thankfully, it was that editor's first DYK nomination. I guess I'm saying that I thought editors would check for copyvios - it's pretty basic and there is even a useful tool for it. SL93 (talk) 13:30, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, and no worries. I tend to overreacht sometimes as well, we are humans and real life issues can find a release valve in editing here (for better or sometimes for worse). I'm simply frustrated that DYK seems to still (or again) be the problem factory it was when I largely abandoned it in 2016 or so. I did error checking DYK queues for years: in those days, I was an admin and I usually either corrected the hook or pulled it, and then discussed this at WT:DYK: editors with too many DYK issues I brought to WP:ANI. All of this pissed off too many people, some with friends at the WMF, and eventually lead to my WMF ban and subsequent deadminning (coupled with my civility issues). So I mostly stayed away from DYK for the past few years, but the problems obviously didn't magically disappear once I stopped looking for them. Fram (talk) 13:37, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Merger discussion for Water (Water Saigon Kick album)

An article that you have been involved in editing—Water (Water Saigon Kick album)—has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Paul McDonald (talk) 13:39, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

• By the way, good catch on the duplicates. Thank you.--Paul McDonald (talk) 13:39, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

• • I saw your "merge and delete" reasoning for the speedy deletion removal. Are you certain that you are an admin? Fram (talk) 13:40, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
    • You are welcome to verify at Wikipedia:List of administrators/Active#P. The merge discussion should go quick.--Paul McDonald (talk) 13:47, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

THANK YOU!!!

for this thread. I've been back and forth about doing it myself. PRAXIDICAE💕 14:27, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

No sources

I have to admit I am really confused as to why there are so many keep votes on List of people on the postage stamps of Italy when the article still has no sources. It has existed for 17 years with no sources. Are sources no longer required in Wikipedia. Do we do original reseach now, and publish it without even allowing others to have a sense of how we did it?John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:29, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Talk Pages

I apologise and my mistake for reinstating all the information on his talk page, I always assumed its not allowed as your talk page is supposed to be permanent thanks for informing me. Also I was hoping you could tell me how to create talk page archives.N1TH Music (talk) 09:46, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

You can archive manually (that's how I do it, once my page gets too long I create a new archive and copy all older discussions there: others even move their talk page to an archive completely and start a new talk page every now and then), or you can install one of the archiving bots. Fram (talk) 10:13, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Saha86830

What do you want to say?Saha86830 (talk) 09:48, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Nothing. I just restored your edits to your talk page. Fram (talk) 10:11, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank You for Filing with ArbCom

Thank you. Someone needed to do it. I was starting to write something up, and didn't really want to be the filer, because I tried that six months ago and was ignored. We shall see what happens. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:45, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alabi Oyinkansola

Hi Fram,

I think I beat you to reviewing the article. I had moved it to draft but somehow seems you were in the process of nominating for AFD. What can we do? Jamiebuba (talk) 10:46, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

No problem, I have removed the AfD notice and asked for deletion of the AfD. Draftifying is just as acceptable as AfD'ing here, so no harm done. Thanks! Fram (talk) 10:50, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Statement by Fram

"another error asked to change it, only to be met with "First, you didn't say please.""

I may start to think of some editors as errors now. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:48, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, that's ... not really what I meant :-) I'll take a look! Fram (talk) 07:54, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

G-Aerosports Archon (articles for deletion)

Hello. I just wanted to mention that I created an alternative article for a particular plane type, rather than the company, following a relevant suggestion (it was argued that the references and other documentation did not provide in depth support for the company, as they made reference to the plane itself). Please see the arguments on the discussion page. Thanks! Skartsis (talk) 08:47, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Tagging of G-Aerosports Archon

I recently removed a speedy delete tag that you had placed on G-Aerosports Archon. I do not think that G-Aerosports Archon fits any of the speedy deletion criteria  because although there is duplication, which is understandable, the contents are not similar. Although NCORP applies to the product as well, the AfD discussion steered clear of the product, and had focussed on the company only: There is possibly a case for an article about the Archon aircraft itself but the topic company fails NCORP criteria.. If you wish, you may try using the simple proposed deletion (PROD) process, or the full articles for deletion (AfD) process, instead, if this was an article, or another process such as MfD or XfD as appropriate. Jay (talk) 03:31, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Arbitration case opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct_in_deletion-related_editing. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct_in_deletion-related_editing/Evidence. Please add your evidence by July 9, 2022, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct_in_deletion-related_editing/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, firefly ( t · c ) 11:19, 18 June 2022 (UTC)