Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)

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The miscellaneous section of the village pump is used to post messages that do not fit into any other category. Please post on the policy, technical, or proposals sections when appropriate, or at the help desk for assistance. For general knowledge questions, please use the reference desk.

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Wikipedia talk:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle has an RFC[edit]

Wikipedia talk:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. 2601:647:5800:1A1F:2450:82EA:FC8A:4EA1 (talk) 23:54, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Improvements to mobile[edit]

"Mobile doesn't get enough developer love" is something you hear a lot. It looks like there's going to be some improvement in this area. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:33, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • That notice at the top has been placed at more than one of those survey pages' talk pages,;and, reading it, it does look as if people are being asked to comment at MW:Moderator Tools/Content moderation on mobile web, not on Meta. It might be just the wrong preposition, or it might be everyone responding to a request for comments by commenting on the wrong wiki where they will not be seen. As I mentioned at MW:Talk:Moderator Tools/Content moderation on mobile web, the latter would be sadly ironic. ☺ Uncle G (talk) 00:42, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Here is my contrarian opinion: I am a very active editor and administrator on enwiki, and I use Chrome on Android phones, but it is not stressful for me because I use the fully functional desktop site on my phone 99% of the time. The only time I use a desktop computer to edit is when I am working with large image files. Otherwise, I edit with phones. I have written Good articles on the "desktop" site on my phone. I have answered thousands of questions from new editors on the "desktop" site on my phone. I have blocked thousands of spammers and sockpuppets and trolls and vandals on the "desktop" site on my phone. To repeat for emphasis, the "desktop" site is fully functional on 2020s era Android smartphones. Actually, that has been true for a decade. Some people have told me that I must have great vision. That is incorrect. I have terrible vision in one eye, and have suffered from severe amblyopia since childhood. I also have cataracts and glaucoma and other problems with my "good" eye, but I still find it very easy to edit Wikipedia on the "desktop" site on my phone. So my sincere question is, why should the WMF continue making the mobile site the default for people editing on Android phones when the misnamed "desktop" site works perfectly and is fully functional? Why not save massive amounts of money by shutting down all mobile sites and apps, and redirect phone editors to the fully functional "desktop site", which could be renamed the all-purpose site? I have asked these questions repeatedly for years and have never received a good answer. Instead, the WMF keeps pouring good money after bad to improve mobile sites and apps thst are not fully functional, and show no signs of ever being fully functional. Cullen328 (talk) 01:50, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for posting this RoySmith :) I'd love to hear more about the features editors find lacking or desirable on mobile web so that we can make sure we're working on the most important items. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 14:29, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Samwalton9 (WMF): In terms of Mobile, literally the biggest frustration I have, to the point of screaming curse-words at my phone, is that when I am working in the desktop version on my mobile device, literally every time I access the site, it throws a pop-up at me that tries to divert me to the mobile version. I dismiss it sometimes dozens of times a day. I wouldn't mind if it asked the first time, and then when I said something like "no, I'm cool", it never asked me again. Instead, it keeps at it. Over and over. If I wanted to use the mobile version on my phone, I would do so. I want the desktop version on my phone. Stop trying to tell me I don't. --Jayron32 17:35, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Jayron32: Have you tried User:Þjarkur/NeverUseMobileVersion? It works well for me. CodeTalker (talk) 20:12, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I use that, too; best way to improve the reading and editing experience on my phone that I know of. But I also have the problem @Jayron32 describes, mostly on Wikipedias in other languages. The annoying popup shows up only in Vector, not in Monobook (which I use on enwiki and dewiki, the sites I read most). Is there a global version of that script or can we get it as a gadget? —Kusma (talk) 13:46, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have not done so. Not real familiar with using scripts. Worth a shot. Does it do anything other than force mobile to always go desktop? --Jayron32 16:24, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Jayron32: That does sound frustrating. When you say you're working in the desktop version on your mobile device - how do you get there? Is it by using the browser's 'desktop mode' function, by clicking 'Desktop' in the Wikipedia interface, or some other way? I haven't been able to reproduce this so I'm not completely sure what you're seeing. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 10:57, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
See File:Screenshot of mobile Wikipedia using desktop.png, which I just took of my phone. That little popup that says "View Simplified Page?" literally comes up every new Wikipedia page I load. I usually use a laptop or desktop computer to edit, but when I do edit from my android phone, I prefer to do so using the desktop version (being more familiar with it). If I end up (randomly) on the mobile version, I use the little blue "Desktop" link at the bottom of a page to get there, but usually I work from the desktop version while editing from my phone. About 1-2 months ago (maybe a bit more) it started with this popup nonsense. I don't know how to inform the system that I want desktop view to be my default on all devices, and to stop asking me every page. It makes Wikipedia almost unusable for me on my phone, having to dismiss that popup on every page that loads. --Jayron32 16:22, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Jayron32: Ahh, thanks for the screenshot. I think this is a feature of the Android Chrome browser, rather than anything to do with MediaWiki. Clicking it presents a largely CSS/JS-free version of the page; it doesn't take you back to the mobile site as far as I can tell. There are some guides on how you can disable that popup, though I've not tried them myself. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 11:13, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Academic interview study on disinformation risks across Wikipedia language editions[edit]

Hello Wikipedia community,

My name is Zarine Kharazian - I am a PhD student at the University of Washington, working with the Community Data Science Collective. My research group is currently recruiting participants for an interview study on disinformation risks across Wikipedia language editions. Specifically, we are interested in understanding whether some Wikipedia language editions are more vulnerable to systematic disinformation and ideologically motivated editing than others, and why. We are also interested in understanding the cross-wiki monitoring mechanisms currently in place to defend against systematic disinformation risks across Wikipedia editions.

In order for us to interview you, you must be an adult and willing and able to record a roughly hour-long interview via video or voice chat in English with a researcher from our team. We will not disclose any identifying information about you and will not retain your contact information past the completion of the study. Unless you opt out of payment, participants will receive a $20 gift card that is usable on Amazon and a range of other places.

More information about the study, including a link to the short screening questionnaire, is available here: https://wiki.communitydata.science/Content_Integrity_and_Disinformation_Risks_Across_Wikipedia_Language_Editions

If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me. Thank you for your time, I really appreciate it. --Zarinek (talk) 22:53, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why do people keep asking us to participate in surveys using the lure of a monetary reward, when that is contrary to our principles? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:13, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Is it socking to make 60 accounts to do the survey? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:33, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not if you systemically lie in 30 of them. After all, what would be better in a survey about disinformation than actual disinformation! Blueboar (talk) 23:56, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Lying is considered misinformation, not disinformation. 172.254.162.90 (talk) 12:58, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
One answer (perhaps an unkind one) to Redrose64's question could be, because the people who make such offers do not actually know what Wikipedia represents. But it is a popular website recognizable by all, so associated research is bound to be noticed more. And it is obvious that in the last few years the term disinformation has been a "trending" (heh...) one. If a global spin is added, say about other-language Wikipedias, it rounds out the package. Eventually, the research study is published, and with luck also receives breathless attention from the media, including so-called "reliable" sources (heh...). Soon after it may be cited on Wikipedia, closing the circle. 65.88.88.201 (talk) 16:28, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Whose principles? Failing to see what's unethical about being compensated for time. Schierbecker (talk) 17:50, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure? Generally, Wikipedians hate money. (Exaggeration, but still) casualdejekyll 18:55, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think anyone objects to payments for writing about Wikipedia for publication elsewhere. Certes (talk) 19:03, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that is the case here. One wonders about the expected quality of research that offers $20 Amazon giftcards as inducement to participants. That is apart from other considerations, such as that the stated premise of the research maybe baseless. Why should there not be disinformation in Wikipedia? Most of the information content is unverified and of unknown/unexamined relevance and neutrality. What difference does it make if Wikipedia in country A is claimed to have more of it than Wikipedia in country B by some newfangled measure or other. Imo it is much more important to research properties that proclaim to be actively against disinformation. Are they really? Or are only rooting out disinformation that suits their biases? 68.174.121.16 (talk) 20:22, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Greetings! I'm Zarinek's faculty advisor for the project and also a long-time Wikipedian. In terms of payment: It's not an Amazon gift card but it can converted into one (or a bunch of other things) or into a donation to a number of charities. Or it can be refused if you don't want it or don't want any indentifiers in our records! In terms of substance: we're not walking into this with a newfangled measure of misinfo/disinformation and it's not our goal to make one. We're interested in understanding how different Wikipedia's think about these things. These kinds of reactions are valuable and we'd love to talk more! —mako๛ 01:13, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I presume you have an approved IRB protocol in place for carrying out this in-person survey? --WaltCip-(talk) 13:12, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. The protocol has been reviewed by the University of Washington Human Subjects Division and has been classified as human subjects research that qualifies for exempt status (Category 2). Zarinek (talk) 18:29, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
OK that's good enough for me. As far as I am concerned, this is a legitimate human subjects study. WaltCip-(talk) 19:59, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Movement Strategy and Governance News – Issue 6[edit]

Movement Strategy and Governance News
Issue 6, April 2022Read the full newsletter

Welcome to the sixth issue of Movement Strategy and Governance News! This revamped newsletter distributes relevant news and events about the Movement Charter, Universal Code of Conduct, Movement Strategy Implementation grants, Board of trustees elections and other relevant MSG topics.

This Newsletter will be distributed quarterly, while the more frequent Updates will also be delivered weekly. Please remember to subscribe here if you would like to receive future issues of this newsletter.

  • Leadership Development - A Working Group is Forming! - The application to join the Leadership Development Working Group closed on April 10th, 2022, and up to 12 community members will be selected to participate in the working group. (continue reading)
  • Universal Code of Conduct Ratification Results are out! - The global decision process on the enforcement of the UCoC via SecurePoll was held from 7 to 21 March. Over 2,300 eligible voters from at least 128 different home projects submitted their opinions and comments. (continue reading)
  • Movement Discussions on Hubs - The Global Conversation event on Regional and Thematic Hubs was held on Saturday, March 12, and was attended by 84 diverse Wikimedians from across the movement. (continue reading)
  • Movement Strategy Grants Remain Open! - Since the start of the year, six proposals with a total value of about $80,000 USD have been approved. Do you have a movement strategy project idea? Reach out to us! (continue reading)
  • The Movement Charter Drafting Committee is All Set! - The Committee of fifteen members which was elected in October 2021, has agreed on the essential values and methods for its work, and has started to create the outline of the Movement Charter draft. (continue reading)
  • Introducing Movement Strategy Weekly - Contribute and Subscribe! - The MSG team have just launched the updates portal, which is connected to the various Movement Strategy pages on Meta-wiki. Subscriber to get up-to-date news about the various ongoing projects. (continue reading)
  • Diff Blogs - Check out the most recent publications about the UCoC on Wikimedia Diff. (continue reading)

Feel free to let me know if you have any questions. questions! Xeno (WMF) (talk) 00:46, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a question. Have you been sold a job-lot of exclamation marks at a bargain-basement price? AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:04, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ha - I'll add one more for a full 8 bytes worth of exclamations =] Xeno (WMF) (talk) 01:15, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Here's another question. Should all these "Movement" messages be considered spam? 71.247.146.98 (talk) 12:25, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, but WP:VPWMF might be a more relevant place to post them. Certes (talk) 12:52, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What is up with all of the featured articles and the "Did you know...?" category having a hidden feminist agenda on Wikipedia?[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I've been noticing this since February. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 9mm.trilla (talk • contribs) 16:42, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Then please give us your evidence. Phil Bridger (talk) 16:46, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Reality and satirical fiction can be hard to separate in American politics. After looking into Mr. Trilla's contributions to this collaborative project for a little bit, I've found that this very much applies to his case as well (ahem, ahum). Beats me, that. Dr. Duh 🩺 (talk) 17:15, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oh boy. This is gonna be the popcorn thread of the day, isn't it? Tony Fox (arf!) 17:23, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@9mm.trilla: Literally any Wikipedia editor can pick any Wikipedia article and try to bring it up to WP:FA status. It's a lot of work to do this, as it needs to be exceptionally well-written, and everything needs to be fully and properly sourced. I have brought two article up to WP:GA status, Eric Chappelow and Robert H. Boyle (both happen to be men), and one article, List of federal judges appointed by George Washington, up to featured list status. Obviously there is nothing feminist about a male president appointing 38 male judges. Ihave had a dozen articles at DYK, of which one was a woman. There are millions of subjects you could work on, either in terms of improving existing articles or creating new ones, that would be candidates for FA or DYK. The complaint that one "agenda" that is overrepresented is basically a complaint that people interested in that area are willing to work so much harder than you. BD2412 T 17:23, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Based on OPs userpage, I'm gonna guess they're a troll...CUPIDICAE💕 17:26, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)@9mm.trilla March is Women's History Month, and there is a focus on improving articles about women and trying to run them near that time, so that may explain some of what you (erroneously) perceive as a "hidden feminist agenda". — Preceding unsigned comment added by ONUnicorn (talk • contribs) 17:30, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Would it be okay to mention the popularity of cat pictures on the cat page?[edit]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat

So, cat pictures have some degree of popularity. As well as videos of cats. Would that be something that should be added to the wikipedia page on cats? Is this the correct place to ask this question?

Should examples of cat pictures be put forth, or would that be too much?

Fearless lede'r (talk) 20:14, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The best place to ask this question would be Talk:Cat, because that is where decisions on the content of that page are made. Note also that we have an article Cats and the Internet. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:32, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You might also get some useful input at Wikipedia:WikiProject Popular Culture. -- RoySmith (talk) 20:53, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Since the cats and the internet link is there, it may not be necessary. Fearless lede'r (talk) 23:12, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Checking regarding making userboxes[edit]

I noticed that for this page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ActuallyNeverHappened02/UBX/AHK),

The guy put multiple user boxes on one page and used code to allow the user to specify which one instead of making multiple pages. Is it better to do that, or is it okay to make a page for each userbox? Which is more preferable?

EDIT: On second thought, I think I should post this on the new userboxes section thingy...

Fearless lede'r (talk) 23:15, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Your page, your choice. Not much else to say, really. Steel1943 (talk) 23:17, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Should I add the ones I make to the gallery list? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Userboxes/Food) Fearless lede'r (talk) 23:20, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Refer to my previous answer; not trying to be rude or anything, but it really does apply to about any questions regarding your user page design within reason. Otherwise, see Wikipedia:User pages; it gives some suggestions in general. Other than that, I'd say look at others' user pages for ideas on how to arrange user boxes on your user page. (Also, you aren't required to post your creations anywhere on your user page if you don't want to. But if you do, you can as well. 😀 ) Steel1943 (talk) 23:33, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Talk page "Please select the New section tab ... " message[edit]

The following code: Please select the <code><span style="color:#0645AD;">New section</span></code> tab above to post your comments below. has been added to many talk pages ([1]). From the random selection of pages transcluded it, I couldn't find an edit summary where the consensus was to add these. Aside from the fact that it looks out of place with the other talk page banners, using a hardcoded name for the section (which can change at some point) and a color scheme that makes the "New section" text look like a link is a very bad design choice. Was there a consensus to add this which I missed? If there isn't consensus, these should be removed. Checking here with the community first. Gonnym (talk) 13:03, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like these are almost all copy-paste insertions by User:Buaidh. I don't think they are a good idea, maybe Buaidh can provide some context before a cleanup job gets done to remove them? — xaosflux Talk 13:18, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It does look out of place. There are better examples, suxh as the "Click here to start a new discussion" box at WP:ANI. Although extending something like it to article talk pages may be overkill. 50.75.226.250 (talk) 14:41, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This line was added to help novice users. There is no consensus to either add or remove them. Yours aye,  Buaidh  talk e-mail 16:43, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Buaidh, if these are for newbies, they need to be removed immediately, as they are visible in mobile and refer to a tab that doesn't exist. —Kusma (talk) 17:38, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not only that, but Vector 2022 says "Add topic" not "New section". And coloring something blue, but making it not clickable, is incredibly confusing. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 18:07, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that these should be removed. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 16:44, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
These should be removed. If we have something like this it should be integrated into the talk header and not mention tab names that are skin and preferences dependent. (I just see a +). —Kusma (talk) 17:36, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Now that we got a response, I'm in the "remove these" camp, also inform Buaidh that these are not useful and that they should not be added still. Barring any objections in say a day, an AWB job should be able to clean them up pretty quick. — xaosflux Talk 18:00, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, all. Is confusion about where/how to start a new section a problem? If you have ideas about problems with how talk pages look or function, then please post at Wikipedia talk:Talk pages project (or ping me to any existing discussions). Thanks, Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:29, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that an AWB bot would make quick work of this. I'll handle coding the bot and BRFA once this achieves consensus. There's also a thread at Wikipedia:Bot requests#Talk page "Please select the New section tab ... " message removal. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:41, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with removal. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him | talk) 21:21, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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