Talk:IJsselmeer

Diphthong Digraph Capitalization

From the (current version of the) article:

The internal capitalisation in the spelling is caused by the
fact that IJ is a diphthong in Dutch, the two letters producing
a single vowel sound when pronounced.

Although I don't know Dutch, this seems like at best a very incomplete explanation, and at worst plain wrong. In other languages (e.g., English, Greek, Latin, ...), a capitalized word can begin with a diphthong, but nonetheless only the first letter is capitalized. If the Dutch language ordinarily capitalizes both letters of a diphthong in such cases, that would be an interesting peculiarity of the language, and something that ought to show up in the article on the language, but it's not mentioned there as far as I can tell. There are discussions on diphthongs in both the Dutch language article and the one on Dutch phonology, but there is nothing in either about capitalization, as near as I can determine, nor can I find anything about this matter in the article on Dutch orthography. This would seem a curious omission in an English-language article on the subject, if indeed diphthongs are capitalized atomically in Dutch, since that would be a very notable orthographic difference from English. Is the IJ actually a ligature, as Bz2 seems to be saying (though his statement is anything but clear)? If so, that would explain the capitalization (and the wording in the article should be changed to read ligature rather than diphthong), but in that case also I'd expect to see a single Unicode character rather than the two letters I and J. Can someone who actually knows Dutch clarify this issue, and explain the real reason for the double capitalization of IJsselmeer? --Jonadab

Answering my own question, the article also links to IJ (letter), which explains that the IJ is a digraph and in Dutch often considered to be a single letter. I will adjust the wording of the IJsselmeer article to clarify this.

The IJ capital is a pain, as many spelcheckers do not accept it, but the ij is either ij or IJ, Ij does not exist in Dutch. Arnoutf (talk) 17:58, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Typewriters in the Netherlands used to have a separate key (and hammer) for the "ij". Note that the "ij" is also considered the next to last letter of the Dutch alphabet (x-ij-z) (the 'y' is not used in (modern) Dutch except for foreigh words notably from Emglish). While some fonts still contain an "ij" as a separate (single) character, it is usually typed as i+j on computers (two separate characters). But that is just a practical approach that allows internaional keyboards to be used, it is fundamentally a single letter, with its own position in the alphabet, not a combination of an 'i' and a 'j'. Rbakels (talk) 11:16, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Ligature

Please note that the ligature IJ (IJ/ij) should not be used in any Dutch word or name. Bz2 23:22, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Since when? What should be used instead? Does that change the name of the lake? -Pgan002 07:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Says who indeed, the IJsselmeer is spelled like that; there is no alternative. Arnoutf (talk) 17:58, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Lansat photo date?

When was the photo taken? -Pgan002 07:18, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move to IJsselmeer. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:49, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I have never, ever, in much reading on the topic in English seen this referred to as Lake IJssel. The name I have seen used in English-language texts is always, always IJsselmeer. Evidence to the contrary should have been provided before this article was moved elsewhere. Knepflerle (talk) 18:41, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

google scholar hits:

"ijsselmeer fish": 881 [1]

"lake-IJssel fish": 280 [2]

Yaan (talk) 19:52, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Google Scholar

IJsselmeer Netherlands: 1,900

"Lake IJssel" Netherlands: 467

IJsselmeer North sea: 1,100

"Lake IJssel" North sea: 296

• Encarta: IJsselmeer [3]
• Britannica: IJsselmeer [4]
• Columbia Encyclopedia: IJsselmeer [5]
• BBC: IJsselmeer [6] (no results for Lake IJssel)
• New York Times: Lake IJssel, 0 results, IJsselmeer, 6 results

UE says precisely that we use what is most used in English language texts. en.wiki readers are best served by using what English readers are most likely to read and use. Knepflerle (talk) 20:42, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm prepared to move it back, let's say in a couple days, give it some time to see if a consensus forms. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:13, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Knepflerle that "IJsselmeer" is used most commonly in English. Olessi (talk) 03:47, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

I have added a request at WP:RM. ChrisDHDR 19:08, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Spelling

I don't want to edit war over national spelling varieties, but spelling should not be changed to UK in an article simply because the topic involves a non-UK European nation. Mr. IP 《Defender of Open Editing》 01:48, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Artificial?

The IJsselmeer is said to be an "artificial" lake, a "reservoir". Both qualifications seem inappropriate to me. "Artificial" gives the impression that there was no water before - but the area was covered with water since medieval times. "Reservoir" gives the impression that the purpose of the lake is to store water. But the closing dam ("Afsluitdijk") was built in 1932 primarily to protect the surrouding area from floods, and in preparation for reclaiming land in "polders". The effect was also that the water became fresh water from brackish. Rbakels (talk) 11:22, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Indeed, artificial lake does not cover it. Though lake is widely used for several kinds of natural and artificial bodies of water, it is usually conceived as "surrounded by land", which the IJsselmeer is not. A bay or sea inlet which is protected from the sea by a 20 mile long dike with outlet sluices and locks, is a rather unique phenomenon. 'Closed off inland bay' is a better description. I've adjusted the article accordingly. Encyo (talk) 08:23, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

"Rhinewater"

This should read "Rhine water" (two separate words). Combining them into a single word is to me pretty clear evidence that the English article was written by a Dutch-speaker who did not bother to have his or her English checked by a native before posting it. Such compounds are generally written as a single word in Dutch (in this case "Rijnwater"), and this is one of the most typical errors made by Dutch-speakers when writing in English: "hotelreservation", "salesmanager" and so on. The link is to the article on "Rhine", not "Rhine water" or the non-existent "Rhinewater". Since this is a link I can't risk damaging it by trying to make the correction myself (if I click there it simply activates the link), so I hope someone with the necessary technical skill can do it for me. For the record, I'm a native English-speaker, and a professional translator, so I do know what I'm talking about.213.127.210.95 (talk) 17:09, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Took a shot at it. Hope that suffices. Llammakey (talk) 17:31, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

IJsselmeer to IJsselmeer

Can the page's name be changed from IJsselmeer to IJsselmeer (try to highlight the "I" in the first one and then in the second one and you'll see the difference)? 2601:643:8101:64E1:99BA:DD61:87F6:7849 (talk) 22:20, 31 July 2020 (UTC) (IPOokap)

That would be incorrect and a misspelling. The digraph is customarily spelled with two separate characters (IJ), the Unicode IJ is there for compatibility reasons, not practical use. JeroenHoek (talk) 07:07, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Conflicting message in the images at start of page

The two map images showing IJsselmeer aren't showing the same thing, and I believe the one where IJsselmeer is shown in blue is correct.

TheOneTEM (talk) 10:43, 20 March 2022 (UTC)