Talk:International Standard Book Number

Removal of Help:ISBN, or not?

An editor removed the hatnote to the Help:ISBN twice ([1][2]). Since this hatnote existed for many years without anyone complaining about it, I thought to bring this up here. Although it is a namespace violation, I'm leaning towards keeping it (as we have similar notes on other pages dealing with (former) mediawiki magic tokens), but I'll leave it to others to decide. Also, IIRC hatnotes are muted in exports, so the reference to Wikipedia would not be visible in "printed" versions, anyway. --Matthiaspaul (talk) 17:39, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

• IMHO, unnecessary self-reference. --Francis Schonken (talk) 17:43, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

12-digit SBN - last 3 numbers are the price

Some SBN numbers are have 12 numbers, where the last 3 numbers are the price of the book. We need an explaination of this and maybe some other sources to prove it ("12 digit Standard Book Number").

Evidence that I found currently:

• Talk:International_Standard_Book_Number/Archive_4#SBN_curiosity
  • "I have seen books printed in the '60s that have an SBN-like number, that is, it seems to be an SBN, but the last three digits are the price of the book. Adding a 0 converts it into a 12-digit number (eg 0-508-60680-225).--Auric (talk) 17:18, 28 September 2011 (UTC)"
  • "SBN 0-508-60680-225" (price: $2.25) -> SBN 0-508-60680 -> ISBN 10 0-0-508-60680 (not found at https://www.google.com/search?q=%220-0-508-60680%22, invalid at ISBN 0-0-508-60680)
  • Don't know what book this is so the user was messaged at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Auric&oldid=964501550#What_book_-_12_digit_sbn.
• https://archive.org/details/tolkienalookbehindcoversbn
  • "SBN 345-21550-8-095" (price: $0.95) -> SBN 345-21550-8 -> ISBN 10 0-345-21550-8 (found at https://www.google.com/search?q=%220-345-21550-8%22, see also ISBN 0-345-21550-8)
• Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history/Archive_146#SBN-ISBN_question (found via https://www.google.com/search?q=%2212+digit+sbn%22)
  • "I got a copy of The Luftwaffe War Diaries by Cajus Bekker which has the SBN 345-22674-7-165 [this is true, see https://archive.org/details/luftwaffewardiar00bere/page/n5/mode/2up?q=345-22674-7-165 ...] Apparently the 12-digit sbn can be converted to an isbn that works in Special:BookSources. Apparently the trick is to drop the rightmost 3 digits, add a leading '0' to the remaining nine digits for a 10-digit isbn, or add a leading '9780' to make a 13-digit isbn:

    SBN 345-22674-7-165 → 345-22674-7 → ISBN 0-345-22674-7

    SBN 345-22674-7-165 → 345-22674-7 → ISBN 978-0-345-22674-7 [found at https://openlibrary.org/books/OL28289015M/The_Luftwaffe_War_Diaries]"

  • price: $1.65

This possibly little-known practice may not have been written about in any books, but it still might be worth checking:

• https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=%22a+Standard+Book+Number%22
• https://archive.org/search.php?query=%22a%20Standard%20Book%20Number%22&sin=TXT

Other talk on SBN in the archives:

• Talk:International_Standard_Book_Number/Archive_1#Archived_note
• Talk:International_Standard_Book_Number/Archive_2#Maths
• Talk:International_Standard_Book_Number/Archive_5#Later_SBN_usage
• Talk:International Standard Book Number/Archive 5#please insert in the introduction

--User123o987name (talk) 19:34, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

UPDATE: looking at the above text I saw that 2 of the 12-digit Standard Book Numbers had the text "SBN 345-" (Ballantine Books apparently). I searched https://archive.org/search.php?query=%22SBN%20345%22&sin=TXT and got 404 results (four hundred and four results), many of which are 12-digit SBNs! Examples (all by Ballantine Books):

• SBN 345-24676-4-595 - price stated on the front cover $5.95 - https://archive.org/details/westernpaintings00mcca/mode/2up?q=%22SBN+345%22
• SBN 345-24307-2-495 - price stated on the front cover $4.95 - https://archive.org/details/onloose00ball/mode/2up - On the Loose
• SBN 345-03331-0-075 - price stated on the front cover $0.75 - https://archive.org/details/madreader00ball/mode/2up
  • prose: a book based on ''Mad'' magazine, [[Mad (magazine)#Reprints|''The Mad Reader'']], had a 12-digit Standard Book Number of 345-03331-0-075 (valid SBN: 03331-0-075, ISBN 10: 0-03331-0-075),<ref>https://archive.org/details/madreader00ball/page/n5/mode/2up?q=345-03331-0-075 - ISBN 0-03331-0-075</ref> and it cost {{USD|0.75}}.<ref>https://archive.org/details/madreader00ball - "75¢"</ref>
• ''Woodstock Handmade Houses'' had a 12-digit Standard Book Number of 345-24223-8-595 (valid SBN: 345-24223-8, ISBN 10: 0-345-24223-8),<ref>https://archive.org/details/woodstockhandmad00robe/page/n3/mode/2up?q=SBN+345-24223-8-595 - by Ballantine Books, ISBN 0-345-24223-8 links to http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2057258</ref> and it cost {{USD|5.95}}.<ref>https://archive.org/details/woodstockhandmad00robe - "Ballantine/Craft [...] 5.95"</ref>
• etc.

These are reliable sources which prove my point. --User123o987name (talk) 21:49, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

The SBN system originated in the UK - ISBN was international (hence the I). The above examples all appear to be American books, or at least American editions. Is it possible that the USA had its own SBN system which was different from the UK system? If so, the ISBN system probably harmonised the two. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 10:51, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

No, there are no 12-digit SBNs. SBNs always have 9 digits. ISBNs always have 10 or 13 digits. Let's not call these numbers SBNs, because they are not, and calling them SBNs will cause confusion. There were (and are) many other cataloging or article code schemes, some standardized on country- or international level, some manufacturer-specific. What you described is obviously one of these other schemes.

--Matthiaspaul (talk) 23:48, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

China and video games

It appears that the Chinese government is using the ISBN system for video games, as a unique identifier and as a gatekeeping and licensing mechanism. See also https://www.appinchina.co/blog/how-to-publish-your-game-in-china/. Of particular note:

• Game Registration Number (GRN / ISBN), which is administered by China’s National Press and Publication Administration (NPPA) – formerly the State Administration of Press, Publication, Radio, Film and Television (SAPPRFT) – after your game has gone through the content approval process. This will be a 13-digit International Standard Book Number (ISBN), used for this purpose. Apple also tends to refer to this as the “game approval number”.

Our article here should make some mention of this. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 23:19, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

First ISBN?

What was the first book published with an ISBN? Or is that buried in the citations somewhere? kencf0618 (talk) 13:13, 6 May 2021 (UTC)